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Thread: Intel C4004 based Prolog card?

  1. #1
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    Default Intel C4004 based Prolog card?

    I am not familiar with Prolog or if they had a standard 56 pin bus but can anyone tell me if this is a Prolog board? I found The Designers Guide to Programmed Logic For PLS400 Systems on Bitsavers and this card looks like PLS-401 "Single Card System" but it doesn't specifically mention of the Intel 4008/4009 combination. This board came out of a DTC 301/S terminal/printer that the original owner discarded long ago but I would like to make it usable. I have an ME1702 that I should be able to read the Intel 1302 ROMs with. but I should be able to pop in 1702As with new code. I also have the schematics for this card. If this is a Prolog produced card, does Prolog have a standard bus? I believe the printer had 3 cards in total but this was the only card the original owner kept. looks like the whole MCS-4 chipset is on this board.

    Any help is much appreciated.

    mcs-4_board_-_top_-_small_107.jpg

  2. #2

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    I don't think Prolog was making cards like this. There is, likely, no bus on the card, only I/O controls for the printer. These cards are unlikely to run the 4004 data bus off the card. The processors data bus is complicated to use.
    There is little there. It shouldn't take long to trace the board out. The top right is just the clock and possibly the reset. I see no reason you can't make it do something useful. There is enough to do things with. You can add sockets to add RAM. It looks to have a socket position for another EPROM as well.
    I'd be curious to see the dumps of the 1302's.
    The picture isn't to clear. I'm assuming the plastic IC and the ceramic next to it are the 4008/9 pair.
    I have an assembler and disassembler that I made but it isn't a separate EXE file, it loads and runs in Win32Forth ( free from the web ). You are welcome to use it. I have a simulator as well that I wrote that I've been using to figure out some code that I found. It is a listing on a pdf but the printing was quite bad. Many characters were missing the right 1/4 so that C and 0 often looked the same.
    You don't need to know Forth to run it but any macros for the assembler would require some Forth coding. The simulator would of course require Forth coding to instrument the simulator with your particular hardware.
    I've got the code working and I'm now creating a PCB for it ( slowly ). It is funny, the original code was suppose to take 4 seconds to generate answers but on the simulator it does it in milliseconds.
    Dwight

    Dwight

  3. #3

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    It does look like an almost copy of the Prolog board. It is quite possibly a Prolog board. I don't think it was intended to run a bus like the Prolog boards they have in the document. It looks like it is the complete processor with I/O, as I said earlier.
    Dwight

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Elvey View Post
    It does look like an almost copy of the Prolog board. It is quite possibly a Prolog board. I don't think it was intended to run a bus like the Prolog boards they have in the document. It looks like it is the complete processor with I/O, as I said earlier.
    Dwight
    Thanks for the replies Dwight. I forgot to mention I have a schematic and layout in a partial Schematic for the printer. It is here: DTC 300/S Schematic and Layout. A larger picture of the board is here with additional pictures. The 4008 is ceramic white to the left of the 1302s. The 4009 is not easy to read but it's the plastic IC to the left of the 4008. This does have the pins noted so I was just curious f it was the same as Prolog and if they had a "standard" bus.

    I am definitely interested in the assembler/disassembler.

    Thanks,
    Santo

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by snuci View Post
    Thanks for the replies Dwight. I forgot to mention I have a schematic and layout in a partial Schematic for the printer. It is here: DTC 300/S Schematic and Layout. A larger picture of the board is here with additional pictures. The 4008 is ceramic white to the left of the 1302s. The 4009 is not easy to read but it's the plastic IC to the left of the 4008. This does have the pins noted so I was just curious f it was the same as Prolog and if they had a "standard" bus.

    I am definitely interested in the assembler/disassembler.

    Thanks,
    Santo
    I see from the schematic, there is no 4004 bus parts to the connector, ( that I can see ).
    Be careful reading the ROMs. Only the first two are 1702 compatible. The 8316 is a 5V only part. You connect it to -10V and you'll smoke it. It is equivalent to a 2716 in data size but may need you to make an adapter for the select pins ( a couple of stacked machine pin sockets work well ).
    Dwight

  6. #6

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    It looks like you can have 2816 bytes of code ( 3 ea 1702A and 1 ea 2716 ).
    You have 8 TTL outs and 4 PMOS outs.
    You have 8 TTL inputs and 1 PMOS input ( test pin ).

    Also note that the 1702As use -9V and not -10V. You may need to adjust for that, when using 1702As in place of the 1302s. It might be easier to use a 2716 with a pin adapter. My sim4-01 puts a diode in series with the -10V line for the 1702As.
    Dwight

  7. #7

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    Spending some time looking at the Prolog stuff. It seems the board is a slightly enhanced PLS-401. It has more ROM and more RAM but otherwise looks to have the same I/O features. It is not similar to the PLS-402 or PLS-403. I wouldn't be surprised if the same code would act the same on your board as would on a PLS-401.
    Dwight

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Elvey View Post
    Spending some time looking at the Prolog stuff. It seems the board is a slightly enhanced PLS-401. It has more ROM and more RAM but otherwise looks to have the same I/O features. It is not similar to the PLS-402 or PLS-403. I wouldn't be surprised if the same code would act the same on your board as would on a PLS-401.
    Dwight
    I was guessing it was an Proglog OEM board made for DTC. Thank you for taking the time to go through that documentation. In the meantime, I am trying to see how I can read the 8316A. Looks like you can read it as a 2716 with the pinout here.

  9. #9

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    Nice lookin’ i4004 ya got there, I’ll give you $50USD and a plastic 4004 for it because the lid is crooked... Glad that you intend to get it working instead of having it sit in a display case.

    I’m done with the HW of my 4004 and 4040 boards but am still pondering how to write the firmware needed. I think that I have a trustworthy assembler.

    Interesting, the only 4008/4009 pair I have is one plastic, one ceramic also. My 4289’s are all ceramic.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slob View Post
    Nice lookin’ i4004 ya got there, I’ll give you $50USD and a plastic 4004 for it because the lid is crooked...
    It gives it some character so I'll keep it I do have a P4004 for getting to the point of a running system, then I'll swap, just in case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slob View Post
    I’m done with the HW of my 4004 and 4040 boards but am still pondering how to write the firmware needed. I think that I have a trustworthy assembler.
    Cool. Do you have a picture of the board anywhere or a page detailing your journey? I'd love to read about it. I'd like to try to keep my board and use it but I can cheat and use an MCS-4 Tester board I have to at least put the 4004 to use and test my memory. That board appears to be expandable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slob View Post
    Interesting, the only 4008/4009 pair I have is one plastic, one ceramic also. My 4289’s are all ceramic.
    I have seen one in white ceramic but it doesn't matter, really. If I ever found a C4009 for cheap, I'd swap it just to keep it all white but that's about it.

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