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Thread: What exactly does the category description "8088 to 286" mean?

  1. Default What exactly does the category description "8088 to 286" mean?

    What exactly does the category description "8088 to 286" mean? Surely there's other processors that could be lumped in there to. I can think of one more, the 8086, for example.
    Thanks

  2. #2

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    Basically IBM 5150 PC through IBM 5170 AT, and all the clones of and clones of those clones.

    Don't forget, since the popularity of the "Multimedia PC" in the 90s, the whole world is PC/XT/AT Clone-centric.

  3. #3

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    It covers all 16-bit x86-compatible processors.

    Basically, the 8086/8088 and their counterparts NEC V20/V30,
    as well as the 80186/80188 and their counterparts NEC V40/V50,
    plus the 80286.

    I don't know if there have been more.

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    There have been one or two unsuccessful 16-bit "PC on a chip" attempts, but I don't know if any made it into wholesale production.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck(G) View Post
    There have been one or two unsuccessful 16-bit "PC on a chip" attempts, but I don't know if any made it into wholesale production.
    Should I take that as a challenge?

    I also assume the embedded variants are also included - eg. the 80186/8, V53, etc. A few of them are still in production. I've always wanted to do a project around GridConnect's (formerly Lantronix) DSTni LX:

    https://www.gridconnect.com/products...-dual-port-ram

    But it has the same problem as many of the early 80186/8 MS-DOS 'Work-alikes" like the Tandy 2000. The interrupt vectors for the on-die peripherals are hard set in conflict with BIOS service addresses. The DSTni LX, for example, has these conflicts:

    Code:
    Vector   IBM PC Compatibility         DSTni LX  SoC  
      09h    INT1 - Keyboard              DMA Controller 0
      10h    BIOS Video Services          Serial Port 1
      11h    BIOS Get Equipment Status    Timer 1
      12h    BIOS Get Memory Size         Timer 2
      13h    BIOS Disk Services           Serial Port 0
      14h    BIOS Serial Port Services    INT 5 External Pin
      15h    BIOS System Services         DMA Controller 2
      16h    BIOS Keyboard Services       DMA Controller 3
      17h    BIOS Printer Services        Serial Port Shared
    I supposed all but the first of those could be disabled and external hardware added. But then it's not much more than a discrete 80186 XL with some dual port RAM. At least the more modern EC versions have adjustable PIC vector bases.

    /shrug
    "Good engineers keep thick authoritative books on their shelf. Not for their own reference, but to throw at people who ask stupid questions; hoping a small fragment of knowledge will osmotically transfer with each cranial impact." - Me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck(G) View Post
    There have been one or two unsuccessful 16-bit "PC on a chip" attempts, but I don't know if any made it into wholesale production.
    A number of palmtops used Chips & Technologies F8680: an XT (including support for 8-bit ISA slots) plus CGA on a chip though augmented with a memory manager capable of handling up to 64 MB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck(G) View Post
    There have been one or two unsuccessful 16-bit "PC on a chip" attempts, but I don't know if any made it into wholesale production.
    The NEC V40 looks like that.

    By the way, is a V40 at 8 Mhz slower than a V30 at 8 Mhz? I have a game (XONIX) which is good playable at V40-8 (Prodest PC1, M200, ETV 2700, ETV 2900), but quite fast and difficult on V30-8 (M24, M21). On V30-10 (M24SP, M240) it's allmost impossible to play even the 1st level.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by eeguru View Post
    Should I take that as a challenge?

    I also assume the embedded variants are also included - eg. the 80186/8, V53, etc. A few of them are still in production. I've always wanted to do a project around GridConnect's (formerly Lantronix) DSTni LX:

    https://www.gridconnect.com/products...-dual-port-ram

    But it has the same problem as many of the early 80186/8 MS-DOS 'Work-alikes" like the Tandy 2000. The interrupt vectors for the on-die peripherals are hard set in conflict with BIOS service addresses. The DSTni LX, for example, has these conflicts:

    Code:
    Vector   IBM PC Compatibility         DSTni LX  SoC  
      09h    INT1 - Keyboard              DMA Controller 0
      10h    BIOS Video Services          Serial Port 1
      11h    BIOS Get Equipment Status    Timer 1
      12h    BIOS Get Memory Size         Timer 2
      13h    BIOS Disk Services           Serial Port 0
      14h    BIOS Serial Port Services    INT 5 External Pin
      15h    BIOS System Services         DMA Controller 2
      16h    BIOS Keyboard Services       DMA Controller 3
      17h    BIOS Printer Services        Serial Port Shared
    I supposed all but the first of those could be disabled and external hardware added. But then it's not much more than a discrete 80186 XL with some dual port RAM. At least the more modern EC versions have adjustable PIC vector bases.

    /shrug
    Early on Intel told MS that some number of low interrupts were reserved for hardware interrupt purposes on x86 processors. MS ignored the warning, being MS, and the 80186 was the result. The 80186 reduced a number components needed on systems, being especially useful for embedded systems.
    Dwight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Elvey View Post
    MS ignored the warning, being MS, and the 80186 was the result.
    I don't see how Microsoft is the primary at fault party. It seems IBM when creating the BIOS soft-interrupt calls would be the guilty party - or at leas the primary one.

    AFAIK, Intel didn't officially reserve any numbers past 10h. Though considering processor exceptions started at 0 and increased, it would have been a good idea to leave more room.
    "Good engineers keep thick authoritative books on their shelf. Not for their own reference, but to throw at people who ask stupid questions; hoping a small fragment of knowledge will osmotically transfer with each cranial impact." - Me

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1ST1 View Post
    The NEC V40 looks like that.

    By the way, is a V40 at 8 Mhz slower than a V30 at 8 Mhz? I have a game (XONIX) which is good playable at V40-8 (Prodest PC1, M200, ETV 2700, ETV 2900), but quite fast and difficult on V30-8 (M24, M21). On V30-10 (M24SP, M240) it's allmost impossible to play even the 1st level.
    The V40 uses an 8-bit BIU (like the V20); the V50 uses a 16-bit BIU (like the V30), so a V40-V30 comparison really isn't fair. You want to compare V40 to a V20, which should be about the same performance, as the core is the same.

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