Image Map Image Map
Page 28 of 29 FirstFirst ... 18242526272829 LastLast
Results 271 to 280 of 283

Thread: FYI: Computer Reset liquidation (Dallas, TX)

  1. #271

    Default

    I consider hoarders to be deviant

  2. #272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    Where did I state my opinion?
    You just did.

  3. #273

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    I tend to agree with you but there is a sizable portion of the population that uses it to refer to quantities greater than 2 but less than 10. The same sets I would refer to as a "few"
    That doesn't mean that they are right.

    And it certainly doesn't mean that I should or would perpetuate their misuse of the terminology.


  4. #274
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    4,579
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Another thing to consider in the longer term is that depressing talk Bil Herd gave at VCF West. The reality is all of this stuff is on borrowed time. Most of it was only designed to last a few years. Many of the parts are not being produced and probably could not be. For a time, we can keep things going with available spares and donor units. But unlike with cars, 50 years hence, little to none of this stuff is likely to be working... even if it was never used.

    This has impacts on two dimensions: value and time. What is the value of a machine that is only good for static display? And if we have stacks of old machines sitting around that are already 25-45 years old anyway, way beyond their intended lifespan, are we deluding ourselves by thinking we will get round to fixing up and using everything we have, let alone acquire more with same intent?
    Last edited by falter; October 9th, 2019 at 09:56 PM.

  5. #275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by falter View Post
    Another thing to consider in the longer term is that depressing talk Bil Herd gave at VCF West. The reality is all of this stuff is on borrowed time. Most of it was only designed to last a few years. Many of the parts are not being produced and could not be. Unlike with cars, 50 years hence, little to none of this stuff may still be working.
    That, like cars, depends on your skill level. I doubt in our life time things like capacitors, resistors, and diodes are going to become "impossible" to find (Even if you are teenager now). Just because there are parts for cars doesn't mean anybody can fix them. Same thing for computers. Yes some things will eventually die off completely (HDD, physical media) but many of that stuff is already replaced or replaceable. Other things like CPUs, Controller chipsets, etc. are extremely unlikely to die off. Yes it happens. I have one in my G2K 386SX - the OPTI chipset is dead but even that one is currently replaceable (parts are still available if you feel comfortable replacing large SMD chip).

    And it is surprising how many things are running with little to no maintenance. I look at my own collection and my IBM systems (knock on wood, spin three times, burns some incense) all boot up with no maintenance at all. Including original HDDs! Some of those are 40+ years old. So yes borrowed time, but enough borrowed, to out last my life time!
    Current Wish List: 1. IBM 7531 Industrial Series PC 2. NEC MultiSync XL (JC-2001) Monitor 3. MicroSolutions MatchPoint AND/OR UniDOS card 4. Compaq 14" VGA CRT Monitor (the one that came with the SystemPro). 5. Stacker HW CoProcessor Board MCA BUS. If you have any of the above for sale please PM me. Thank you!

  6. #276
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Ohio/USA
    Posts
    7,652
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    I think anybody who works on old computers like say for example an Amiga that has custom chips that you can not replace outside of another working Amiga knows those machines do have a finite lifespan. Static shocks will take out chips, so will power supplies that get old enough to put out voltage out of spec, power surges, etc. I have a few graphics cards that are not that old but are dead from design flaws in the main chips, cracked BGA balls, and probably electron migration from running too hot. You don't need a whole system to fail to have an unusable machine.

    In some respects the real old gear where every part of the circuit is a discrete component with one function can probably be replaced forever unlike newer stuff that is pretty much just a custom chip. That's why old cars made before computer chips were used are still running while newer ones will one day quit working from dead eproms and unobtainable computer modules.

    If you ever worked in the semiconductor industry you can images how much money, expertise, and effort goes into making millions of chips cheaply and how super costly a drop in replacement chip would be to reproduce down the road. Doesn't even have to be chips, try putting a production line together to make 5.25" floppy drives or HDs from scratch once the last spinning disk maker goes to SSD and closes the last plant.

    The future is to program a custom chip that does the function of a whole vintage computer stuffed into the empty shell of the system you want to play with (hardware emulation).
    What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
    Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
    Boxed apps and games for the above systems
    Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems

  7. #277
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Outer Mongolia
    Posts
    1,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown_K View Post
    If you ever worked in the semiconductor industry you can images how much money, expertise, and effort goes into making millions of chips cheaply and how super costly a drop in replacement chip would be to reproduce down the road.
    There is a small but growing field of interest in using programmable logic (CPLDs, small FPGAs) to replace individual ASICs, but it is true that the level of difficulty starts going up exponentially once you start moving beyond relatively trivial DIP-packed chips. Even machines as lowly as the C64 pose difficult challenges to reproduce perfectly because, for instance, chips like the SID incorporate both digital and analog components on the same die. And once you start getting to large flat packages or BGA there are steep practical barriers to trying to adapt some kind of daughterboard to fit in place of the original chip.

    I have to admit I find projects like the C64 Reloaded motherboard sort of perplexing; a brand new motherboard with ZIF sockets to hold increasingly unobtanium chips looks sexy, but the actual value add sort of escapes me. Probably just me, my fault I don't get it.

  8. #278
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Posts
    1,998

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
    There is a small but growing field of interest in using programmable logic (CPLDs, small FPGAs) to replace individual ASICs
    All of which contain flash storage which will rot over time, along with the problem of almost no currently produced parts having 5v compatible I/O.

  9. #279
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Outer Mongolia
    Posts
    1,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Kossow View Post
    All of which contain flash storage which will rot over time, along with the problem of almost no currently produced parts having 5v compatible I/O.
    Degrading memories can be reflashed or, more importantly, once you actually have a working design you could always port it to a new part as necessary indefinitely into the future. But, yes, the 5v I/O problem is certainly a significant issue. For a replacement part intended for a .6" pitch 24-40 pin DIP it's at least within the realm of practicality to turn out adapter boards that include level sifting for every pin that fit in the original footprint, but when you start getting to late 80's-90's level of integration, yeah, good luck with that.

  10. #280
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    4,579
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    As an example of what I said earlier - take my 1988 Thunderbird Turbocoupe. When it came out, it was a marvel of modern tech (at least, for a North American car), one of the first with ABS braking and a whole host of computerized functions.

    Today, if the ABS breaks, it's gone. There is no replacement, there's no way to replace or repair the computer that runs that. The ICs it uses are mostly unobtanium. The market is too small to make it worthwhile for an effort to reproduce or create an alternative. I wonder if that isn't the case too with vintage machines. Sure, the really popular ones might generate enough aggregate demand to make reproduction or such feasible, but when you get into the less popular machines.. like the Intertec Superbrains of the world, or even the Lisa... in 30 years are there going to be enough demand to make fabricating solutions worthwhile for individual machines? And at the end of the day, if you've changed the guts over to new programmable logic, say, is it even the same machine anymore?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •