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Thread: Xerox 6060 restoration

  1. #1
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    Default Xerox 6060 restoration

    I have just bought this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/163740299177

    EAF1A34D-F070-4B63-BB1C-EB23A5BAA738.jpg

    Seller says it doesn稚 work - I値l try and fix it - wish me luck!

    (it値l take a couple of weeks to arrive)

  2. #2
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    I passed on that -- I have 4 6300s and 2 6060s and out of all of them only one always works. I have another that decides randomly when it wants to work after power is applied -- it either shows POST just fine, or just sits there. I have two spare 6300 motherboards that are spare parts at this point because they don't work either. I have 3 color 6300 monitors which all work but each has some issue; I have 3 mono 6300 monitors and only one works; I have two 6060 monitors and neither works.

    I'm alarmed at how many of these are dying in storage, and how, despite no obvious corrosion or flaws, they just stop working even after significant capacitor replacement.

    I do wish you luck though. Please keep us posted. Give me hope I can someday repair mine.
    Offering a bounty for:
    - A working Sanyo MBC-775, Olivetti M24, or Logabax 1600
    - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

  3. #3
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    With Xerox 6060, welcome to the M24 owner club!!!

    I can give you hope.

    I have one full working M24
    I have one full working M24SP
    I have one full working M21
    I have one full working M240
    I have one M24 with power supply dead, but when putting another in, it works, except of floppy operation
    I have anther M24 (with "sidecar" - extension box) where power suppy is Ok, but floppy operation problem
    - The floppy operation problem at both is read error, currently* investigating in it.
    I have another dead M240, power supply issue
    I have one coior monitor which basically works fine, except of after not using it for long time, it needs up to 30 minutes to warm up and switch high voltage on. No idea what it is
    I have one monochrome monitor with 25 pin connector which fully works
    I have one monochrome monitor with composite in for M240 which fully works
    I have NEC Multisync I (the original one) which works in digital mode with 25 to 9 pin adapter, and currently* I am trying to mix color signals with intensity signal to get it also working in analogue mode, for TFT usage.

    * means currently, means not really currently, but currently interrupted - waether is too good and too hot to play computer...

    Power supply of M24/M240 is bad topic. Hard to repair, hard to test outside of chassis, because of it's mechanical structure. Maybe I should replace the internals with modern power supply...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixter View Post
    I passed on that -- I have 4 6300s and 2 6060s and out of all of them only one always works. I have another that decides randomly when it wants to work after power is applied -- it either shows POST just fine, or just sits there. I have two spare 6300 motherboards that are spare parts at this point because they don't work either. I have 3 color 6300 monitors which all work but each has some issue; I have 3 mono 6300 monitors and only one works; I have two 6060 monitors and neither works.

    I'm alarmed at how many of these are dying in storage, and how, despite no obvious corrosion or flaws, they just stop working even after significant capacitor replacement.

    I do wish you luck though. Please keep us posted. Give me hope I can someday repair mine.
    I知 sorry and surprised to hear that. The M24 I have back in Italy works flawlessly (the few times a year I get to use it), and the 6300 I have in the States also never had any problem - I just added a 3.5 drive a few weeks ago. Monitors for both (both monochrome) are fine. I even have an M240 in Italy which I acquired in absolutely shocking conditions, which stil boots up (having replaced the power supply) and only has a (hopefully minor) memory problem which I am still tracking down.

    I知 afraid analog (and high-voltage) electronics is not my strong suit so I don稚 think I can help much with troubleshooting the monitors - which is a shame, as I致e never seen a colour monitor for these - either in real life (I believe they were far too expensive for retail customers in Italy back in the day) or even for sale. Maybe other people here can.

    Basic question on the 6300 with erratic power-on behaviour - did you check the power rails with a meter? When it doesn稚 POST, do you get anything at all on the parallel port?

    And also - thanks! Yes I will keep you posted, I had wanted a 6060 for a long time to 殿lmost complete my collection (I致e given up on finding a Logabax... unless I move to France one day...)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1ST1 View Post
    With Xerox 6060, welcome to the M24 owner club!!!
    Thank you! Although I致e been in the club since the late 80s - but in fairness I only became active again in the last couple of years.

    Nice collection - I have never seen a sidecar for the M24!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1ST1 View Post
    I have NEC Multisync I (the original one) which works in digital mode with 25 to 9 pin adapter, and currently* I am trying to mix color signals with intensity signal to get it also working in analogue mode, for TFT usage.
    I had started on that project too a while back, even got some components for it - had to put it on standby for lack of time

    Quote Originally Posted by 1ST1 View Post
    Power supply of M24/M240 is bad topic. Hard to repair, hard to test outside of chassis, because of it's mechanical structure. Maybe I should replace the internals with modern power supply...
    I never had to, but presumably one could adapt a modern-ish AT power supply and just add a +15V rail with a custom-voltage boost switching regulator from eBay?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valerio View Post
    Basic question on the 6300 with erratic power-on behaviour - did you check the power rails with a meter? When it doesn’t POST, do you get anything at all on the parallel port?
    I haven't measured the PSU yet. On the LPT port, when it doesn't POST I see nothing; when it does POST, I see numbers up to 45h (normal) and then it's in the POST display normally.

    I had wanted a 6060 for a long time to “almost” complete my collection (I’ve given up on finding a Logabax... unless I move to France one day...)
    I'll likely never see an M24 (I'm in the USA) unless I trade someone for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valerio View Post
    Nice collection - I have never seen a sidecar for the M24!
    Yes, I've never seen one either! Only in a photo.

    I never had to, but presumably one could adapt a modern-ish AT power supply and just add a +15V rail with a custom-voltage boost switching regulator from eBay?
    Someday I'll understand all of the words in that sentence.
    Offering a bounty for:
    - A working Sanyo MBC-775, Olivetti M24, or Logabax 1600
    - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

  7. #7
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    Valerio, do we know from elsewhere? Because I know italian guy which also travels a lot to USA and has large collection of M24 and 6060, 6300, etc...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixter View Post
    Someday I'll understand all of the words in that sentence.
    Apologies - that was indeed a bit cryptic. Let me elaborate a bit.

    If I had to replace an M24/AT&T power supply with a modern one, I would do the following:

    ATX power supply

    It seems there is a large number of form factors for modern PC PSUs (eg see here) but I would stick with the classic ATX. Specifically I would go for a Startech 300W ATX 20-pin power supply. I have never used this one before but I have bought plenty of Startech products in the past and they were of good durable quality. I have a number of Startech AT power supplies (sadly, no longer on sale) for my 486 etc. and they are whisper-quiet. No affiliation - just a satisfied customer!

    Adapters

    The M24 has four main internal DC voltage rail connectors on its power supply.

    M24_PSU.jpg

    1. A connector for +5V/GND/GND/+12V for internal drives. Internal drives use the classic 4-pin Molex connectors - no need for adapters here, the ATX power supply can be connected to the drives directly.
    2. A +15V/GND connector for monochrome monitors (connector "B" in the photo). We'll get back to this later.
    3. A +12V/-12V connector for the ISA bus (connector "A" in the photo)
    4. Two large +5V/GND screw posts for the main motherboard/bus converter supply

    I think the cleanest way to connect to the ATX PSU is to buy a cheap adapter that has has a 20-pin female ATX connector - something like this. You will also need a screw terminal block of sufficient size to accept the two large red/black wires.

    Cut off the unwanted end and refer to a pinout guide like this to connect the following:

    - All +5V wires (pins 4, 6, 19, and 20) together into one end of a screw terminal block. Do not connect the wire from pin 9 - that's the +5V standby (always-on) supply, leave that unconnected.
    - At least four GND wires (choose from pins 3, 5, 7, 13, 15, 16, 17) into another one of the screw terminal block openings
    - The wire from pin 14 (/PS_ON) to any GND wire. This tells the ATX PSU to switch itself on. Alternatively you can put a switch between /PS_ON and GND and control the PSU that way.

    This takes care of the main motherboard/bus converter power supply. Now we need to connect the +12V/-12V line. I don't have access to an original power supply right now so I can't tell exactly what type of connector this is, but I know it's a male connector on the PSU side so at worst we can connect the two wires from the AT PSU (pins 10 and 12 for +12V/-12V) to individual pins (those from breadboard jumper wires should do) and insert those into the female connector, securing the joint with good old fashioned electrician tape . Alternatively we can run a new wire to the motherboard, where the connector is male - I think individual female dupont connectors would fit, but again I can't be sure until I get a chance to check.

    15VDC line

    This is where it gets a bit tricky. We need to generate a +15V rail. This is used exclusively to power the monochrome monitor - if you are using an adapter to VGA, this is not needed. I also think this may not be needed by the colour monitor as that has its own power supply, but never having seen one I can't be sure. Anyway, I think the best way to do this is to use a DC-to-DC converter, called a boost or step-up converter, to obtain +15V from +12V. eBay has a large offering of these, but many are "variable-voltage" output that needs to be trimmed. In my experience I have always found these a bit fiddly - I usually prefer fixed-output-voltage regulators like this one. Mind the amperage - I would not go below a 2A rating as the M24 Theory of Operations manual specifies a current draw up to 1.8A on this line. I would source the +12V from one of the Molex connectors for the disk drives. The connector is the same physical size as the +12V/-12V one, so the same consideration apply for connecting it up.

    Dimensions

    All the above should work for a temporary replacement and/or for testing. For a permanent replacement it's worth noting that ATX PSUs are deeper that the M24 one (150mm vs 112mm) so I am not sure if they would fit. At a stretch I guess it would be possible to remove the ATX PSU outer enclosure (!!DANGER!!) and relocate the fan outside of the PSU into the location of the original fan, and house the ATX PSU PCB into a smaller enclosure (possibly re-using the original enclosure if the original PSU is truly beyond repair).

    It is also worth mentioning that the workings of the original power supply are documented in beautiful detail in the Theory of Operations manual, so if at all possible troubleshooting and/or repair of original units is worth a try (even though I have never done so myself beyond general cleaning and fuse replacement).

    Disclaimer

    I have not done any of the things above - this is just theory. Electricity kills. If you don't know what you are doing, don't.
    Last edited by Valerio; June 30th, 2019 at 11:44 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1ST1 View Post
    Valerio, do we know from elsewhere? Because I know italian guy which also travels a lot to USA and has large collection of M24 and 6060, 6300, etc...
    I don't know but sadly I doubt it - I've hardly ever been to Germany! Also my collection is anything but "large" - just one of each of M24, M240, 6300, and (yet to arrive) 6060. But I'd be happy to be introduced to your other Italian friend!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1ST1 View Post
    Valerio, do we know from elsewhere? Because I know italian guy which also travels a lot to USA and has large collection of M24 and 6060, 6300, etc...
    No, that is Vincenzo, and I don't think he's on this forum sadly.
    Offering a bounty for:
    - A working Sanyo MBC-775, Olivetti M24, or Logabax 1600
    - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

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