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Thread: Trying to IPL an IBM 5360 System/36 after sitting in a barn for 20 years

  1. #1

    Default Trying to IPL an IBM 5360 System/36 after sitting in a barn for 20 years

    Greetings from Italy!, First post here...

    I recently acquired an IBM 5360, It's a STAGE 2 system with two 10SR disks and the 72MD floppy loader. It sat in a barn for about 20 years untouched. Previous owner told me he was clearing out an old building and there were several IBM machines there (including a System/34) and he saved this one thinking he could use it as a "regular PC". All the other machines were chopped into pieces, because they didn't fit in the elevator. He only tried powering it up once when he picked it up, but tripped the house breaker.

    Anyhow, I'll spare you how difficult was loading and unloading it in it's new home...

    Here's a clip from the first power on:

    https://youtu.be/pkoFgdVjCSw

    The machine passed the "smoke test" and turned on without much hesitation, both 10SRs spun up and the first (top) one also tried to seek, the second one spun down a few seconds later. A warning light came on, I later on noticed that the CSP jumper pack between the two board was loose, that fixed it.

    Now the machine powers up correctly, but when I press the load button, the load light remains on, the CSP Run lights up briefly and then goes back off. Display remains at FFFF and I see no activity from the disks.

    The second disk still spins down after some time. I tried swapping the controller cards in the A2 cage but the problem persists. Now the head on the top drive won't seek anymore.

    If I press the load button when the second disk is stopped, it spins up but then stops again. I also tried to IPL from floppy (without a diskette loaded, as I don't have it at the moment), but I saw no activity from the 72MD.

    Do you have any suggestions? I'm slowly reading all the manuals on Bitsavers, but so far I haven't found anything that could explain my problem.
    Thanks!

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrix97 View Post
    Greetings from Italy!, First post here...

    I recently acquired an IBM 5360, It's a STAGE 2 system with two 10SR disks and the 72MD floppy loader. It sat in a barn for about 20 years untouched. Previous owner told me he was clearing out an old building and there were several IBM machines there (including a System/34) and he saved this one thinking he could use it as a "regular PC". All the other machines were chopped into pieces, because they didn't fit in the elevator. He only tried powering it up once when he picked it up, but tripped the house breaker.

    Anyhow, I'll spare you how difficult was loading and unloading it in it's new home...

    Here's a clip from the first power on:

    https://youtu.be/pkoFgdVjCSw

    The machine passed the "smoke test" and turned on without much hesitation, both 10SRs spun up and the first (top) one also tried to seek, the second one spun down a few seconds later. A warning light came on, I later on noticed that the CSP jumper pack between the two board was loose, that fixed it.

    Now the machine powers up correctly, but when I press the load button, the load light remains on, the CSP Run lights up briefly and then goes back off. Display remains at FFFF and I see no activity from the disks.

    The second disk still spins down after some time. I tried swapping the controller cards in the A2 cage but the problem persists. Now the head on the top drive won't seek anymore.

    If I press the load button when the second disk is stopped, it spins up but then stops again. I also tried to IPL from floppy (without a diskette loaded, as I don't have it at the moment), but I saw no activity from the 72MD.

    Do you have any suggestions? I'm slowly reading all the manuals on Bitsavers, but so far I haven't found anything that could explain my problem.
    Thanks!
    I have a S/36 5360 in more or less the same configuration as your is in. While I have not used it this year, and it wasn't 100% functional the last time I used it, it can still more or less work.

    The first thing you need to do is to find some way to CSIPL the machine. The 10SR disks in my experience have been unreliable, and I think at least one of mine has died. I CSIPL's my machine using the DIAG21 diskette and the 72MD drive. You mentioned that the 72MD drive did nothing when you tried to "IPL" (I am assuming you tried to CSIPL via Mode E), but even if there is no disk in any of the slots, the 72MD drive should still move and try and pull a disk into the drive. Mine originally did nothing, but that was fixed after I noticed one of the connectors came loose during transit.

  3. #3
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    Default

    My brief time with a /36 found that all cabling, connectors and boards need to be checked to see if they are fully seated after the machine was transported.
    Likewise if you are pulling out board jumpers, note their location and orientation as they are not all the same.
    I can't see it in the video, but I assume that you are trying to work with the keyswitch in the SERVICE position? Quite a few functions are locked out in NORMAL. I had to drill my lock cylinder out before I could even crack the MASTER password.

    You passed the smoke test, now's a good time to start cleaning and reseating things.
    = Excellent space heater

  4. #4

    Default

    Thanks for the suggestions!

    Today I had some time to play with it more, I reseated basically almost every card and jumper, but the problem still persist. Now the head on the top drive tries to seek every now and then.
    I find it odd that with both the diskette and disk IPL the CSP activity light remains on for just a few seconds, and for the same amount of time in both cases. That leads me to believe there's something wrong with the CSP or with the A2 card cage (like a missing power rail) as those are the only things in common.

    I also tried removing one and then both RAM cards, but it behaved exactly the same. I find it odd that it does not throw an error when RAM is removed.

    I have two 5362 both in working order, but I don't think it will help diagnosing this one. Cards look similar but I doubt they'll work (or even fit) in the 5360.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeXT View Post
    I can't see it in the video, but I assume that you are trying to work with the keyswitch in the SERVICE position? Quite a few functions are locked out in NORMAL. I had to drill my lock cylinder out before I could even crack the MASTER password.
    I had to do this too, but it is easy enough just to disconnect the jumpers on the bottom of the keyswitch, which can be accessed by just opening the front door of the machine, and swapping "SERVICE" and "NORMAL" wires. No drill required, at least for testing.

  6. #6
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    Have you managed yet to reach page 115 of http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/sys...nual_Oct86.pdf ?
    = Excellent space heater

  7. #7

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    Yes, But I think those procedures only apply when one of the error LEDs lights up. In my case that does not happen.
    I'll try and follow it anyways next time I fire it up.

  8. #8

    Default

    Updates!

    I made some progress, the 72MD now tries to load a floppy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m4kwYheeVo

    the VFO card was installed in the wrong slot.

    I tried manually loading the DIAG21 disk but it didn't even try to read it... I also still have the problem where the Load light remains on and the CSP light quickly goes off. The MAP states that the Load light should go out after some time.

  9. #9

    Default

    Well, I was loading the disk in the wrong way... doh!
    Now the head seeks, the load light goes off and the CSP light remains on. But after a few seconds the display shows 7A7A followed by db02 and the processor error light. I checked the MAP on Bitsavers and that error points to a bad CSP card. There's a more in-depth MAP on another volume, but sadly that's not available online.
    I will try to make another DIAG21 floppy just in case.

  10. #10

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    Impressive work, but I have to ask... why were you sitting in a barn for twenty years?

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