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Thread: Lisa repair/startup help please

  1. #1

    Default Lisa repair/startup help please

    I have a Lisa 2 that boots. It shows the initial screen below. It does pass the self test successfully. The widget hard drive gives error 82. I assume it's unsalvageable, although if there are things I should check on, please do tell.

    The floppy drive is a Sun Remarketing 800K, or at least the manual that came with the system suggest that it is. It reads disks. I made some copies of MacWorks, LisaDraw, and all 5 Operating Systems disks using the Applesauce device (https://applesaucefdc.com). I have heard that disks made with this device can be successfully used with a Lisa. Those disks give the error for No Boot File Detected. I'm not recalling the number offhand. So I made some copies of a Diagnostic disk and a Burn in test disk that I got from Macintosh Garden. Both read but then result in a screen similar to the second image below, where there are a bunch of lines, nothing intelligible, but the image seems to respond to mouse movement with a few dots moving around.

    I don't understand Lisa architecture at this point, if it requires hard disk book or if I can boot from floppy easily or what. I'm just starting to learn about it.

    I have a Floppy Emu I could configure for use with it as well, if someone can point me to a bootable hard disk image, if that is even possible.

    Are there ROM versions or other info useful for troubleshooting that you would like me to include?

    Thanks to anyone who can take the time to help!

    And finally if there is a more active forum for working on Lisas, please do tell.

    IMG_7531.jpgIMG_7538.jpg

    I'm not sure why images come through so small, they are hires iPhone images... Is that a setting related to the forums?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianoid View Post
    I'm not sure why images come through so small, they are hires iPhone images... Is that a setting related to the forums?
    The forum heavily compresses images if you upload them as attachments. If you want high resolution images in your post, upload it to an image hosting site and use [img] tags.

  3. #3
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    Congrats on possibly having an 800k upgraded Lisa 2/10. Download a copy of Basic Lisa Utility and try the formatting routine on the drive after verifying the brake isn't stuck, else post the error it returns.
    I have never generated or imaged lisa disks using anything besides Disc Copy 4.2 running on an old 030 powerbook so I cannot say how reliable Applesauce is for reading or writing. I would just stick to the Disk Copy way if you have the hardware to do so. The Lisa requires a working hard disk to do much of anything. If you cannot get your Widget to behave your only options are a number of very expensive disk emulators.

    Additionally post some photos of the disk cage so we can verify what floppy drive you have and use a drag and drop image host like imgur as any attachments here on the forum resize to very small resolutions.
    = Excellent space heater

  4. #4

    Default continuing saga of my Lisa

    Quote Originally Posted by NeXT View Post
    Congrats on possibly having an 800k upgraded Lisa 2/10. Download a copy of Basic Lisa Utility and try the formatting routine on the drive after verifying the brake isn't stuck, else post the error it returns.
    I have never generated or imaged lisa disks using anything besides Disc Copy 4.2 running on an old 030 powerbook so I cannot say how reliable Applesauce is for reading or writing. I would just stick to the Disk Copy way if you have the hardware to do so. The Lisa requires a working hard disk to do much of anything. If you cannot get your Widget to behave your only options are a number of very expensive disk emulators.

    Additionally post some photos of the disk cage so we can verify what floppy drive you have and use a drag and drop image host like imgur as any attachments here on the forum resize to very small resolutions.
    Thanks so much for the response.

    Here are some more pictures from startup. And a picture of the drive cage- do I need to remove it for you to see more?






    And here is what happens after I try to load a floppy:


    The computer passes the initial self-test. Does that test the Video RAM or should I start by swapping some of those chips out, assuming they are readily available?

    Sadly BLU uses the keyboard, so I need to fix the keyboard I have before I can use that.

    Is this eBay link the best way to get the pads for the keyboard, or do y'all have any other suggestions?

    I like to use Youtube videos like this one for this kind of work, or is there one you recommend other than that? I watched it and it leaves some questions (do the pads above ready have the mylar disks attached or do I still have to harvest them and glue them on?), but I'm sure it will become clear once I get in there.

    I found a video about unsticking the head. I will try to take out the drive cage and look for the servo on the bottom and move it to try to unstick it. Any suggestions as to a tutorial to messing with these things?

    Thanks again for your help.
    Last edited by ianoid; September 15th, 2019 at 03:00 PM.

  5. #5
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    There's a user on this forum that sells those foam inserts, texelec or something.

    For the servo, I'd suggest 3-n-1 oil on it.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiGaBiTe View Post
    There's a user on this forum that sells those foam inserts, texelec or something.

    For the servo, I'd suggest 3-n-1 oil on it.
    Thanks! Texelec is not too far away here in TX (still would have them ship), and I've bought some fun stuff from them in the past. I'll definitely go to them for the pads

    And I'll get some of that oil, although I have so many other lubricating chemicals already, like white lithium grease, dielectric grease, WD40, TV tuner spray (for potentiometers). It's cheap so if none of those is a reasonable substitute, I'll grab some.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ianoid View Post
    I made some copies of MacWorks, LisaDraw, and all 5 Operating Systems disks using the Applesauce device (https://applesaucefdc.com). I have heard that disks made with this device can be successfully used with a Lisa. Those disks give the error for No Boot File Detected. I'm not recalling the number offhand. So I made some copies of a Diagnostic disk and a Burn in test disk that I got from Macintosh Garden. Both read but then result in a screen similar to the second image below, where there are a bunch of lines, nothing intelligible, but the image seems to respond to mouse movement with a few dots moving around.
    Other than your Hard Disk, your system is working fine!

    Your system has the ScreenMod (3A) roms, this is why you see the garbled image on the screen when you boot a "Lisa" disk. You will need to boot the special "ScreenMod" version of the diags disk or MacWorks, none of the LOS disks will work on with the 3A roms.

    BLU will work with the screen mod. Get your keyboard fixed.

    Rick

  8. #8
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    Any suggestions as to a tutorial to messing with these things?
    Unfortunately not really. Aside from the sticky brake, frozen spindle bearings, swapping boards and regluing the alignment glass inside the drive for when it falls off (and it will) there is not much else that can be done aside from reseating the boards, ensuring it's speed qualifying for a brake release and praying that it works. The boards and even the HDA are apple engineered and built, so there's nothing cross compatible to swap like there is with the Profiles. My widget was getting on the unreliable side and started having trouble finding tracks until I plugged it into a donor system, let it warm up for half an hour and ran a low-level format. It tested fine after that however before you ask, no the Widgets are not backwards compatible with the older Lisa 2/5. If I remember correctly, the system ROM doesn't include the proper support for the Widget and on the assumption it could only be a Profile gets confused and fails.
    = Excellent space heater

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianoid View Post
    And I'll get some of that oil, although I have so many other lubricating chemicals already, like white lithium grease, dielectric grease, WD40, TV tuner spray (for potentiometers).
    WD40 is not a lubricant, it's a penetrating oil designed to free stuck parts. Never use it as a lubricant because the light oils evaporate and leave a gummy residue behind.

    Lithium grease is too thick, dielectric grease is for connectors and not moving parts, and potentiometer cleaner is not designed for bearing lubrication.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiGaBiTe View Post
    WD40 is not a lubricant, it's a penetrating oil designed to free stuck parts. Never use it as a lubricant because the light oils evaporate and leave a gummy residue behind.

    Lithium grease is too thick, dielectric grease is for connectors and not moving parts, and potentiometer cleaner is not designed for bearing lubrication.
    Great information. Thanks, I have all this stuff and use it for projects that I'm told to, but I don't necessarily have a lot of general repair knowledge, so this helps me with the logic of it all.

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