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Thread: Do we really need to upgrade?

  1. #21
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    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...acy-compliance shows what MS collects. Security and Basic are probably reasonable and necessary to update and fix an OS. It is after all hard to find a bug without being informed of it. But take a look at what is collected under Full. In other versions, the information sent to MS also included every character typed and the first couple of megabytes recorded by the webcam. A bit more than most want to share.

    Back in the 90s, the browser add-ons that collected all that were supposed to result in payment to the user.

    My major problem with Windows 10 is the frequent inexplicable desire to push updates through without using even the current insufficient MS testing procedures. They aren't going to get any revenue from the update so they can't be trying to adjust the quarterly reports.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by krebizfan View Post
    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...acy-compliance shows what MS collects. Security and Basic are probably reasonable and necessary to update and fix an OS. It is after all hard to find a bug without being informed of it. But take a look at what is collected under Full. In other versions, the information sent to MS also included every character typed and the first couple of megabytes recorded by the webcam. A bit more than most want to share.

    Back in the 90s, the browser add-ons that collected all that were supposed to result in payment to the user.

    My major problem with Windows 10 is the frequent inexplicable desire to push updates through without using even the current insufficient MS testing procedures. They aren't going to get any revenue from the update so they can't be trying to adjust the quarterly reports.
    I don't trust that's all they're collecting. Why would anyone trust the word of large corporations ? Also why do they need to collect *any* information in the first place ? They got by without this crap prior to Windows 10 and they can do so now. Windows 10 is updated too much, too often anyway and is another example of unstable modern software. How about having well planned out development cycles and not this rapid-release nonsense ? Plus the forced auto-updates is unacceptable. I use my PC for actual development so I need stability - what if the update has bugs or some other undesirable crap ? I'll update my PC if and when I want to, not when some corporation decides. If anyone else is OK with this madness then enjoy but I sure as heck am not.

  3. #23
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    Full made sense for the pre-release versions. Everything needs to be tested and MS needs the results of those tests to fix problems. Much of what MS collects in the more minimal settings matches what was collected for XP and 7.

    Forced auto-updates became mandatory when users would skip months of updates and get infected. The alternate solution is invasive anti-virus programs that try to stop every attacker from getting at an unpatched issue. Very slow.

    MS has improved the update issue somewhat, allowing for a bit of a delay so one can let others find out first if an update is buggy. MS did make a more important change in stopping Store apps from being immediately updated or grabbing all the bandwidth. It was rather annoying not being able to check mail or download a security update because MS absolutely thinks I need the latest 100+ MB version of the Metro mail client I don't use.

    The weird thing was that MS went to the unscheduled updates so they wouldn't rush a patch just to meet the Patch Tuesday deadline. Have more time, do more testing, only release when correct. Instead, some changes skip the testing community completely and result in widespread data loss. I don't understand. Even in the 90s at MS, they would make a serious mistake and then fix the development procedures resulting in a few years of very good products before the next blunder.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Orange View Post
    Not when building a new PC. As far as I know the freebies ran out on this side of the pond. Yes, I know - there are ways but I'm not going to go there.
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-...ws-10-upgrade/
    Thomas Byers (DRI)- "You'll have a million people using the A> [MS-DOS prompt] forever. You'll have five million using [nongraphic] menu systems such as Topview, Concurrent PC-DOS, Desq, and those types. But there'll be 50 to 100 million using the iconic-based interfaces."

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by krebizfan View Post

    Forced auto-updates became mandatory when users would skip months of updates and get infected. The alternate solution is invasive anti-virus programs that try to stop every attacker from getting at an unpatched issue. Very slow.
    I'm perfectly OK with morons getting infected, don't drag me down because of someone else's ignorance

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxtherabbit View Post
    I'm perfectly OK with morons getting infected, don't drag me down because of someone else's ignorance
    That's a rather unwise position. The more 'morons', as you chose to put it, that get infected make the spread of the malware that much more effective, on all fronts. An attitude of that type is unenlightened, at best.
    PM me if you're looking for 3" or 5" floppy disks. EMail For everything else, Take Another Step

  7. #27
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    If it were just you and you were happy with the status quo, then no you don't need to upgrade. But if you plan to be on the Internet, and interact with other people via the Internet (e.g. participate in forums, exchange emails, do the social media things, etc.) then yes, unfortunately you are going to need to upgrade to keep up with the minimum requirements. The question is, *what* do you upgrade?

    Let's say you're a gmail user, and Google decides that from now on you must use HTTPS and your browser can't do HTTPS (or can only do it with obsolete no-longer-supported ciphers or key lengths). The simple option is to choose a device you'll use to access gmail, and update/upgrade that one device. Or you might decide that you are going to upgrade by hosting your own SMTP server, except that modern SMTP servers need you to upgrade to all the latest email signing and DNS tagging standards if you don't want your mail to be blocked outright or categorized as spam. You'll need to upgrade something, somewhere, if you want to interact with the rest of the world.

    My work computer is always fully upgraded, because my employer provides it to me and has deemed that it shall be that way (and I happen to agree with their reasoning why). My 'main' home computer is also fully upgraded, because I want to be able to play the newest games on it that require the newest DirectX or whatever, do things on the Internet that require the latest protocols, etc. In other words, I don't want to get left behind.

    But I also have all my un-upgraded systems that I *don't* upgrade because I *do* want those systems to get left behind. I like them exactly the way they were/are and I feel they would be diminished if they were (excessively) upgraded. Maxing out the RAM, putting in the biggest disk it will handle, and adding a network adapter are about as far as I'm willing to upgrade those systems.

    It doesn't have to be all or nothing. You can upgrade some things, and not upgrade others.

  8. #28

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    I like watching movies < 2000 on LaserDisc.

    Updated all my internet connected machines to Windows 2010 but most machines are pretty old (W510, W520).

    I also retain Windows XP T6(0/1)s (cannot remember) for retro LAN Parties (Red Alert 2, Age of Empires 2). Working on a Windows XP T400 LAN party setup for C&C Generals.
    Last edited by PeterNC; October 25th, 2019 at 06:13 AM.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone View Post
    That's a rather unwise position. The more 'morons', as you chose to put it, that get infected make the spread of the malware that much more effective, on all fronts. An attitude of that type is unenlightened, at best.
    I straight up don't care about herd immunity. THE CREAM WILL RISE TO THE TOP BROTHER OH YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Orange View Post
    I don't understand your beef with W10. I have a Gigabyte MA790FX-UD5P which is now over 10 years old with a AMD AM3 955, 8 GB of memory, and it runs W10 like it was meant for it. I browse on it with Chrome and it runs all of my games. That board has in the past run DOS, XP, W7, W8, and W8.1 and there was never a problem with any of it. Storage is so cheap these days that the 'boated' file thing is no longer a valid argument. You could have bought W8 for just a few bucks and then had W10 for free. I think most of the complaints about W10 boil down to people not wanting to cough-up a few extra bucks for the product. Heck, I bought a W10 set back in the summer for about $50 from a legal wholesaler down Texas. Good luck with the Linux thing. You may swear by it but I'm willing to be those close to you will have something to say.
    I dont want to seem a jerk by not going back and forth on the issue with you,, but there are plenty of other threads on this board pertaining to this issue (some I have chimed in on) with many members on both sides. If there was a visible lineup of OS's in front of me with windows 10 in the list.. I would choose something else.

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