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Thread: Flight simulator 2.0 3.0 8087 questions.

  1. #1

    Default Flight simulator 2.0 3.0 8087 questions.

    Hello I just got an Epson Equity 1+ and want to put in a 8087 co pro. I ordered a 8087-1 for my 10mhz 8088 but was woundering if flight sim used the 8087 at all. Ive read that it does but not the version or if its true. Im sure it would help if it can use it as it has very basic 3D to calculate.

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    Microsoft Flight Simulator 1.x through 4.x do not use a math coprocessor. Math coprocessors weren't used by most games because a math coprocessor's strengh is accuracy+speed at a given workload, and 3-D matrix math was not one of the workloads it was designed for. As a result, it's too "slow" for something quick like a game or 3-D sim...

    ...that said, Falcon 3.0 *does* use a math coprocessor for it's "high fidelity" flight model, which is an option you can enable for more accuracy (at the expense of speed). But that's the only game I can recall that actually used it. MobyGames has a list of games that supposedly take advantage of one, but I suspect that list is inaccurate.

    (*) El-Fish definitely uses one, and is nearly unusable without one, but calling El-Fish a game is a stretch; it's more of a simulator.
    Offering a bounty for:
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    MS Flight Simulator does not support any math coprocessor. https://jeffpar.github.io/kbarchive/kb/021/Q21392/ Falcon 3.0 seems to have been the first flight simulator to support a math coprocessor but that needs a more powerful computer than an 8088 provides.

    All the 8087 will do is transfer an extra 40 cents a month to the electric company.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixter View Post
    Microsoft Flight Simulator 1.x through 4.x do not use a math coprocessor. Math coprocessors weren't used by most games because a math coprocessor's strengh is accuracy+speed at a given workload, and 3-D matrix math was not one of the workloads it was designed for. As a result, it's too "slow" for something quick like a game or 3-D sim...

    ...that said, Falcon 3.0 *does* use a math coprocessor for it's "high fidelity" flight model, which is an option you can enable for more accuracy (at the expense of speed). But that's the only game I can recall that actually used it. MobyGames has a list of games that supposedly take advantage of one, but I suspect that list is inaccurate.

    (*) El-Fish definitely uses one, and is nearly unusable without one, but calling El-Fish a game is a stretch; it's more of a simulator.
    On the contrary, the FPU would have helped a lot but back then it was a luxury and was priced appr. thousand dollars as far as I remember.

  5. #5

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    THANKS for the responds. I wish there where more (more like any) games thats support it. I guess ill go draw out a car in Auto CAD. I think i saw they cost like 140 (Idk what that would be in todays money) ill also take a peek at El Fish XDD. Thanks again everyone

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    Quote Originally Posted by george View Post
    On the contrary, the FPU would have helped a lot but back then it was a luxury and was priced appr. thousand dollars as far as I remember.
    Bit less than that. IBM's initial release of the 8087 cost $260 and that included a replacement 8088. By 1987, the 8087 was barely more than $100.

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    As far as I'm aware the only game which supports the 8087 is the original SimCity.
    AtariPC.net
    Atari PC | IBM Compatible Series

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by krebizfan View Post
    Bit less than that. IBM's initial release of the 8087 cost $260 and that included a replacement 8088. By 1987, the 8087 was barely more than $100.
    Well, according to this http://www.in2013dollars.com/1980-do...018?amount=260 it is like about $800 nowadays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george View Post
    On the contrary, the FPU would have helped a lot but back then it was a luxury and was priced appr. thousand dollars as far as I remember.
    It would not have helped, and in fact would have made things worse. The 8087 can perform a floating-point multiply faster than the 8086 can, but using floating-point numbers for the entire flight model, 3-D world coordinates, and rasterization would have been unacceptably slow, as the 8086 must handle the majority of those operations and can only natively work with integers. Until the Pentium, most x86 software realtime 3-D displays used integer-based fixed-point numeric representations.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8BitForever View Post
    ill also take a peek at El Fish
    It requires a 386+ and VGA, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamin Joe View Post
    As far as I'm aware the only game which supports the 8087 is the original SimCity.
    IIRC SimCity does not use the 8087 (it will run just fine without it). Falcon 3.0 can use an x87 for a more detailed flight model, as previously mentioned, but it slows the game down.
    Offering a bounty for:
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    - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixter View Post
    IIRC SimCity does not use the 8087 (it will run just fine without it).
    SimCity will leverage an 8087 if available. What's nice is that it will also honor the "nomath/disable" state of the "NO87" DOS environment variable, making comparison testing with/without FPU support (when an 8087 is installed) an easy affair.

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