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Thread: ImageDisk 1.18 setup/settings help

  1. #1

    Default ImageDisk 1.18 setup/settings help

    Greetings,

    Looking for little help with with setting up ImageDisk v1.18 on a 386SX25 MS-DOS machine. I would like to create some CP/M disks for a few different Kaypro's and Osborne's that I currently own. I have been downloading .IMG files from Dave's Old Computers site. I currently have a 1.2MB 5 1/4 floppy drive but wasn't sure if I should set this up as a 1.2MB floppy in the BIOS settings or as a 360K ? Also was looking for the following settings to enter into the ImageDisk settings page:

    Cylinders = 40 (or 80 ?)
    Side = One (or should this be Two ?)
    Double-step = ?
    R/W gap =Calculated ?
    Format gap = Calculated ?
    Interleave = ?
    Retries = 5

    What would be the best settings for the above ? Is there anything else I should change/use ?
    Also, I have a ton of what I believe are new, blank (unformatted) DSDD disks. Should these work ?

    Thanks for your help !!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Chaffee, MO
    Posts
    1,313

    Default

    IT ALL DEPENDS............
    You have to be the detective to locate those settings for your specific CP/M System.

    Depends On:
    1. Model of Kaypro (Osborne)
    2. Specific ROM that is installed in the Kaypro (Osborne)
    3. Type of Floppy(s) Installed in Kaypro (Osborne) SS/DS 40 Track/80Track
    4. Type of Floppy that is being written SS/DD, DS/DD, SS/HD. DS/HD

    Here are the cpmtools definitions for the Kaypro (you didn't specify the Model), so you pick
    the one that best fits your computer Model. This will give you lots of answers to your questions......

    # KAY1 Kaypro II/2 - SSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
    diskdef kay1
    seclen 512
    tracks 40
    sectrk 10
    secbase 0
    blocksize 1024
    maxdir 64
    skew 1
    boottrk 1
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [kay1]
    description = KAY1 Kaypro II/2 - SSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
    cylinders = 40
    heads = 1
    secsize = 512
    sectors = 10
    secbase = 0
    datarate = DD


    # KAY2 Kaypro 2X/4/10 - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
    diskdef kay2
    seclen 512
    tracks 40
    sectrk 20
    secbase 0
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 64
    skew 1
    offset 5120
    boottrk 0
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [kay2]
    description = KAY2 Kaypro 2X/4/10 - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
    #sides = extsurface
    cylinders = 80
    heads = 2
    secsize = 512
    sectors = 10
    secbase = 0
    datarate = DD


    # KAY3 Kaypro 2X/4/10 (Alternate) - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
    diskdef kay3
    seclen 512
    tracks 40
    sectrk 20
    secbase 0
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 64
    skew 1
    offset 5120
    boottrk 0
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [kay3]
    description = KAY3 Kaypro 2X/4/10 (Alternate) - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
    sides = extsurface
    cylinders = 80
    heads = 2
    secsize = 512
    sectors = 10
    secbase = 0
    datarate = DD


    # KAY4 Kaypro, Pro-8 ROM - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
    diskdef kay4
    seclen 512
    tracks 80
    sectrk 20
    secbase 0
    blocksize 4096
    maxdir 96
    skew 1
    offset 10240
    boottrk 0
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [kay4]
    description = KAY4 Kaypro, Pro-8 ROM - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
    sides = extsurface
    cylinders = 160
    heads = 2
    secsize = 512
    sectors = 10
    secbase = 0
    datarate = DD


    # KAY5 Kaypro Advent TurboROM - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    diskdef kay5
    seclen 1024
    tracks 40
    sectrk 10
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 256
    skew 1
    offset 10240
    boottrk 0
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [kay5]
    description = KAY5 Kaypro Advent TurboROM - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    sides = extsurface
    cylinders = 80
    heads = 2
    secsize = 1024
    sectors = 5
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD


    # KAY6 Kaypro Advent TurboROM - SSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    diskdef kay6
    seclen 1024
    tracks 40
    sectrk 5
    blocksize 1024
    maxdir 32
    skew 1
    boottrk 3
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [kay6]
    description = KAY6 Kaypro Advent TurboROM - SSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    cylinders = 40
    heads = 1
    secsize = 1024
    sectors = 5
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD


    # KAY7 Kaypro Advent TurboROM - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    diskdef kay7
    seclen 1024
    tracks 80
    sectrk 10
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 256
    skew 1
    offset 10240
    boottrk 0
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [kay7]
    description = KAY7 Kaypro Advent TurboROM - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    sides = extsurface
    cylinders = 160
    heads = 2
    secsize = 1024
    sectors = 5
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD

    It will also point you to the correct Media (SD, DD, HD) and the associated floppy that is probably installed in
    your Kaypro. Knowing this information will fill in most of your questions. If you format the Floppy's on the
    machine you are going to use them in, then you can skip that process in Imagedisk.

    Same situation goes for the Osborne...............

    # OSB1 Osborne 1 - SSSD 48 tpi 5.25" - 256 x 10
    diskdef osb1
    seclen 256
    tracks 40
    sectrk 10
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 64
    skew 2
    boottrk 3
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [osb1]
    description = OSB1 Osborne 1 - SSSD 48 tpi 5.25" - 256 x 10
    cylinders = 40
    heads = 1
    secsize = 256
    sectors = 10
    secbase = 1
    datarate = SD


    # OSB2 Osborne 1 - SSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    diskdef osb2
    seclen 1024
    tracks 40
    sectrk 5
    blocksize 1024
    maxdir 64
    skew 1
    boottrk 3
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [osb2]
    description = OSB2 Osborne 1 - SSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    cylinders = 40
    heads = 1
    secsize = 1024
    sectors = 5
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD


    # OSB3 Osborne Executive - SSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    diskdef osb3
    seclen 1024
    tracks 40
    sectrk 5
    blocksize 1024
    maxdir 64
    skew 1
    boottrk 3
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [osb3]
    description = OSB3 Osborne Executive - SSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    cylinders = 40
    heads = 1
    secsize = 1024
    sectors = 5
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD


    # OSB4 Osborne G2 System - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    diskdef osb4
    seclen 1024
    tracks 40
    sectrk 10
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 128
    skew 1
    offset 20480
    boottrk 0
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [osb4]
    description = OSB4 Osborne G2 System - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    sides = extsurface
    cylinders = 80
    heads = 2
    secsize = 1024
    sectors = 5
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD


    # OSB5 Osborne G2 System - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    diskdef osb5
    seclen 1024
    tracks 80
    sectrk 10
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 256
    skew 1
    offset 20480
    boottrk 0
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [osb5]
    description = OSB5 Osborne G2 System - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    sides = extsurface
    cylinders = 160
    heads = 2
    secsize = 1024
    sectors = 5
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD


    # OSB6 Osborne 1 + Osmosis - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
    diskdef osb6
    seclen 512
    tracks 80
    sectrk 10
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 128
    skew 2
    boottrk 6
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [osb6]
    description = OSB6 Osborne 1 + Osmosis - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
    sides = alt
    cylinders = 80
    heads = 2
    secsize = 512
    sectors = 10
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD


    # OSB7 Osborne Nuevo - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    diskdef osb7
    seclen 1024
    tracks 40
    sectrk 10
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 128
    skew 2
    offset 10240
    boottrk 0
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [osb7]
    description = OSB7 Osborne Nuevo - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    sides = extsurface
    cylinders = 80
    heads = 2
    secsize = 1024
    sectors = 5
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD


    # OSB8 Osborne Vixen - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    diskdef osb8
    seclen 1024
    tracks 80
    sectrk 5
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 128
    skew 2
    boottrk 2
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [osb8]
    description = OSB8 Osborne Vixen - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    sides = alt
    cylinders = 80
    heads = 2
    secsize = 1024
    sectors = 5
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD


    # OSB9 Osborne Executive w/Z3 - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    diskdef osb9
    seclen 1024
    tracks 160
    sectrk 5
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 128
    skew 2
    boottrk 2
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [osb9]
    description = OSB9 Osborne Executive w/Z3 - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    sides = alt
    cylinders = 160
    heads = 2
    secsize = 1024
    sectors = 5
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD


    # OSBA Osborne Executive Dig. Arts - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    diskdef osba
    seclen 1024
    tracks 80
    sectrk 5
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 128
    skew 2
    boottrk 2
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [osba]
    description = OSBA Osborne Executive Dig. Arts - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    sides = alt
    cylinders = 80
    heads = 2
    secsize = 1024
    sectors = 5
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD


    # OSBB Osborne Nuevo 2.1 - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    diskdef osbb
    seclen 1024
    tracks 160
    sectrk 5
    blocksize 2048
    maxdir 256
    skew 1
    boottrk 2
    os 2.2
    end

    # libdsk data below
    [osbb]
    description = OSBB Osborne Nuevo 2.1 - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
    sides = alt
    cylinders = 160
    heads = 2
    secsize = 1024
    sectors = 5
    secbase = 1
    datarate = DD

    You want to write the images to the proper destination floppy that you CP/M System is using.

    Larry

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    3,334

    Default

    Always set the BIOS to match the actual drive installed. ImageDisk does not really care much about what BIOS or DOS thinks the drive is anyway.

    You can view existing ImageDisk .IMD files with the IMDV utility. That will show you how many tracks/sectors/sides an existing image has.

    Then you will need to know which image works in your target systems, as Kaypro had many different models and upgrades. I believe the Osborn had some drive upgrades as well.

    If the target systems use 48TPI/40 track drives you should use a "360k" drive in your PC to write them, not a 1.2mb drive.

    96TPI/80 track 1.2mb drives can not write disks that are reliably readable in a 48TPI/40 track drive ("360k" or less). The only way to create a readable disk in this configuration is to completely degauss the disk before writing the image. If you need to write 48tpi disks, a 360k drive would be less of a headache.

    Cylinders = 40 (or 80 ?)
    Should match the number of head used in the image when writing. Should match the number of tracks your drive supports when reading.

    Side = One (or should this be Two ?)
    When writing, this is automatic.
    When reading, usually just leave as auto. Occasionally a mis-formatted single sided disk may require you to set this option.

    Double-step = ?
    When reading or writing a 40 track disk in an 80 track drive, set to on. See the warning above about writing with a 1.2mb drive.

    R/W gap =Calculated ?
    Just leave as calculated.

    Format gap = Calculated ?
    Again, just leave as calculated.

    Interleave = ?
    This is normally automatic.

    Retries = 5
    When reading, however many you want. But if you need to try more than 5 times, you need to check and clean the disk and/or drive heads.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Guisborough, England
    Posts
    210

    Default

    Just a note following up on the above.

    I have regularly created 40 track disks using a 80 track drive, without any problem. In connection with ImageDisk, and also regarding .DSK images, and using 22DISK.

    However, the previous poster is quite correct to WARN regarding the potential problem, but this is easily avoided if using a VIRGIN disk (I have some retained for such purposes) OR thorough wiping of the disk using a magnet on both sides, using a slow circular motion right around, and withdrawing the magnet slowly on completion of each side. A device for wiping recording tape might also do the job, but I've always found the magnet to be sufficient.

    Geoff
    Vintage Devices: Epson HX-20/TF-20, Amstrad PCW 8256 (with extras), 386 and 486 PCs with 5.25 and 3.5 floppy drives, Pentium 75 with Roland LAPC-I midi card

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    33,129
    Blog Entries
    18

    Default

    See my posting some time back on making your own very thorough disk eraser from old microwave magnetron magnets. Even though I have an AC powered VHS bulk eraser, the magnet one does a great job.

  6. #6

    Default

    Guys, thanks so much !! This info is just what I was looking for !! I have 2 Kaypros. One is a Kaypro II (original) and the other is a Kaypro (1). I also have an Osborne 1 with the double density upgrade and the Osborne Executive.

    I purchase 1000 blank 5.25 floppy drives on eBay about 20 years ago. They are all sealed and were kept in a cool and dry space. Problem is I am not 100% sure what type of disks they actually are. I did purchase them for the Commodore 64 but they can be something different. They are generic blanks with no markings or sleeves. They still look like new. I am hoping they will work for this application.


    Thanks, again ...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Chaffee, MO
    Posts
    1,313

    Default

    Grab one of those floppy's and check to see if they have the extra hub ring on the media. All 360K floppy's
    had the extra hub ring, and 1.2M Floppy's did not. Hope fully they will be 360K Floppy Discs.

    Larry

  8. #8

    Default

    Thanks All,

    So the 1K of floppy disks I have doesn't have the ring:sad but I did pick up some new 360K floppies. I was able to write and image to these disks (and the ones without the rings) using IMD118 however, my Kaypro 1 doesn't boot with it. I'm writing the K1SYS.IMD image. This image is a 10X512 image with 40 tracks but I am not sure if I should have the drive set to double step or not ? Also not sure what the interleave should be ? I have tried changing these settings and I have heard the Kaypro 1 drive trying to read them as the head moves but that's it. Seems like its stuck in a read loop. Nothing loads. I am like so close to getting this to work, I can feel it. Just not sure what I am doing wrong ?

    Thank you all !!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    3,334

    Default

    48TPI/40 track disks written in an 96tpi/80 track 1.2mb drive will not be reliably readable in 360k 48tpi/40 track drives. This has to do with the narrower track width.

    There are two options to make this work:
    1: Write the images with a genuine 360k floppy drive (double stepping should be OFF)
    2: Thoroughly degauss the floppy disk before writing in the 1.2mb drive (double stepping should be ON)

    If you are just writing disk images and can degauss the disks, that should be OK, but file-level stuff (such as copying files both ways between two DOS systems or using 22disk) in a 1.2mb can become a headache.

  10. #10

    Default

    Thank you ! Looks like I will be purchasing a 360K floppy drive on ebay.

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