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Thread: Drive parameters for Gotek USB disk

  1. #21

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    I could be wrong but I think 360K used 9 secdtors per track. You might want to look that one up. As was noted, the 720K 3.5" drive is 500kbits. Are you using the hard drive to be the boot disk? I hope not, especially if you don't trust the hard drive. Get things working with the Gotek first. Just remember, we tried to point you in the right direction, when you get frustrated enough to try other methods.
    Dwight

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Elvey View Post
    I could be wrong but I think 360K used 9 secdtors per track. You might want to look that one up. As was noted, the 720K 3.5" drive is 500kbits.
    The 9 sectors per track formats should run at the 250Kbs datarate. Which I'm pretty sure a 1.44MB Gotek won't do with the stock firmware.
    My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
    The 9 sectors per track formats should run at the 250Kbs datarate. Which I'm pretty sure a 1.44MB Gotek won't do with the stock firmware.
    I think you're right. 250Kbs sounds right.
    Dwight

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
    The 9 sectors per track formats should run at the 250Kbs datarate. Which I'm pretty sure a 1.44MB Gotek won't do with the stock firmware.
    Not sure what the objection to flashing the firmware is. You can install the FashFloppy by installing a couple of links and using a simple USB A to A cable. If you elect for the HXC you will need a USB serial lead which are a few dollars on E-Bay,

    The stock software is good at what it is supposed to do, that is replace a drive with one particular set of characteristics. Both the alternatives seem excellent and greatly expand the capability of the beast.
    Dave
    G4UGM

    Looking for Analog Computers, Drum Plotters, and Graphics Terminals

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Elvey View Post
    I could be wrong but I think 360K used 9 secdtors per track. You might want to look that one up. As was noted, the 720K 3.5" drive is 500kbits. Are you using the hard drive to be the boot disk? I hope not, especially if you don't trust the hard drive. Get things working with the Gotek first. Just remember, we tried to point you in the right direction, when you get frustrated enough to try other methods.
    Dwight
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Elvey View Post
    I could be wrong but I think 360K used 9 secdtors per track. You might want to look that one up. As was noted, the 720K 3.5" drive is 500kbits. Are you using the hard drive to be the boot disk? I hope not, especially if you don't trust the hard drive. Get things working with the Gotek first. Just remember, we tried to point you in the right direction, when you get frustrated enough to try other methods.
    Dwight
    That's precisely what I intend to do

    I am currently booting from the hard disk , that is all I have until the Gotek arrives and I'm limiting use as much as possible. When the Gotek arrives I'll see what I can get it to do with going with the basic ROM BIOS sector/read write routines. Untill that is done attempting any configuration of CP/M would be pointless. However, I may be lucky enough to do a direct transfer of the boot and CCP/BDOS using the ROM/BIOS. Its much the same as getting the basic system running in the first place, with the advantage that once it is working a lot of other stuff is ready to go.

    Doing the firmware flash may be easy for those that have done it before but if it fails for any reason I'm back to square one and a risk taken that wasn't needed. I do get the point about the limitations of the Gotek that can be improved with a firmware flash, but one step at a time. If tinkering with the Gotek isn't necesary to get a basic file transfer going then it can wait, its not a priority.

    I'll soon find out what it can and can't do. I'm hoping that if it works as it should and uses the side select line, with the USB formated to 720Kb not selecting a side it should work as a 360Kb drive. The current 5.25" setup for 320Kb assumes double density, 512bytes/sector, 9 sectors/track, 40 tracks, double sided, 300rpm and MFM. A 720Kb 3.5"disk is double density, 512bytes/sector, 9 sectors/track, 80 tracks, double sided, 300rpm and MFM. The only difference is the number of tracks, use one side and I've got a 360Kb drive. Plenty for shifting stuff off the hard drive and creating a boot disk. I'll then have the dev tools The EPROM progammer works and I have 2732's on order, so I can make any changes to the ROM BIOS I may need. (one change I know I'll need is side switching on transfers that go beyond the last sector of side A.)

    Anyway thanks for the input, it is making me think. I just need the hardware to be able to put some theory into practice

    Pete

  6. #26
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    Doing the firmware flash may be easy for those that have done it before but if it fails for any reason I'm back to square one and a risk taken that wasn't needed. I do get the point about the limitations of the Gotek that can be improved with a firmware flash, but one step at a time. If tinkering with the Gotek isn't necesary to get a basic file transfer going then it can wait, its not a priority.
    My thoughts were if it allows you to remove data from the hard drive quickly, without too much additional use, then its a winner. Once a drive is flakey my focus is always on backing up the data PDQ. All too often folks faff around trying to make it work, and in doing so kill it completely.

    A "Fu Bar" ed GoTek (see RFC https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3092) can be replaced from E-Bay quickly and cheaply. Lost data on a hard drive is much harder to cope with.
    Dave
    G4UGM

    Looking for Analog Computers, Drum Plotters, and Graphics Terminals

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by g4ugm View Post
    My thoughts were if it allows you to remove data from the hard drive quickly, without too much additional use, then its a winner. Once a drive is flakey my focus is always on backing up the data PDQ. All too often folks faff around trying to make it work, and in doing so kill it completely.

    A "Fu Bar" ed GoTek (see RFC https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3092) can be replaced from E-Bay quickly and cheaply. Lost data on a hard drive is much harder to cope with.
    In fact if you manage to break on I will bring you a replacement when I come out in March,
    Dave
    G4UGM

    Looking for Analog Computers, Drum Plotters, and Graphics Terminals

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doubletop View Post
    I'll soon find out what it can and can't do. I'm hoping that if it works as it should and uses the side select line, with the USB formated to 720Kb not selecting a side it should work as a 360Kb drive. The current 5.25" setup for 320Kb assumes double density, 512bytes/sector, 9 sectors/track, 40 tracks, double sided, 300rpm and MFM. A 720Kb 3.5"disk is double density, 512bytes/sector, 9 sectors/track, 80 tracks, double sided, 300rpm and MFM. The only difference is the number of tracks, use one side and I've got a 360Kb drive.
    Again, the model number you quoted was for a 1.44mb Gotek. *Unless they improved the firmware and didnít tell anyone* that Gotek isnít going to care if you format your USB stick for 720k, itís still going to try to act like a high density drive with 18 sector tracks and twice the data rate of a 360k drive.
    My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
    Again, the model number you quoted was for a 1.44mb Gotek. *Unless they improved the firmware and didn’t tell anyone* that Gotek isn’t going to care if you format your USB stick for 720k, it’s still going to try to act like a high density drive with 18 sector tracks and twice the data rate of a 360k drive.
    That's good information. I had assumed the device would somehow be aware of the format and adapt accordingly. I had a more detailed look at the FlashFloppy link you provided and it certainly looks like a well put together package, unlike some github offerings. It does create some confidence that it should work out as advertised, how many times have we tried to install stuff to find there are pre-requisites that aren't documented?

    When this unit arrives I can start playing. According to Ebay it should the next 2 weeks

    Pete

  10. #30
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    My experience with upgrading two Goteks to FlashFloppy was completely painless. (I used the USB method.) The only thing I would recommend as an add-on is swapping out the stock numeric 7-segment display for an OLED, instructions for that are on the wiki, but it’s completely optional.

    You can download and use the HxC image tools to help set up blank image files for common (to pretty obscure) formats as .hfe files if auto detection doesn’t work. (If your disks are set up as much like DOS 40 track drives as it sounds like they are a simple 360k raw DOS .IMG file will probably take a format fine.)
    My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs

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