Image Map Image Map
Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 121

Thread: Why isn't there a DOS forum ?

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Western North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pcdosretro View Post
    After 30+ years ?!? Those fans are being petty and ridiculous. Perhaps they should try to build a TARDIS and change the timeline.
    Sure, but there's a reason for the old saying that "revenge is a dish best served cold." Amazingly irrational, but true that even today, long after their heyday, one can still get flames kindled with 6502 versus Z80 ( or vi versus emacs, or Ford versus Chevy). This irrational blind loyalty as you aptly say in another post will be writ large on the national stage on the evening of Groundhog Day this year.

    I would have preferred if Intel and/or AMD had not abandoned the embedded market because one of my expertises is x86 assembly language but they did and ARM dominates it. I have nothing against ARM or people who like its architecture. Granted I don't care for Linux but I wouldn't get upset that someone wanted to have a Linux forum, I simply wouldn't read it.
    ARM dominates today like MS-DOS dominated the 80s and 90s. The peripheral selection, low cost, and miniscule power requirements seal the deal for embedded, the space where AVR, 6502, and Z80 still shine pretty brightly, but cheap ARM is eating everybody's lunch. I'm getting ready to do a fairly large FreeRTOS-based on-the-bare-metal project with an STM32. I'd rather be doing it with an eZ80.... But I also still have a dozen or more late-model 486 single-board ISA computers, some which run a xx-DOS of some flavor and some which run other OS.

    Take the blind loyalty, mix with equal parts of reliving the Glory Days of the platform of choice, and top with broiled nostalgia, and the battles of old are re-enacted on internet forums ( harumph, gimme alt.flame again!) and relived over and over. That's part of the witch's brew that drives the vintage and Retrobrew computer hobbies... It even drove me to rebuild an old and thoroughly obsolete computer based on a somewhat buggy CPU of old, the Zilog Z280.... which could have beat x86, blast it all! (That last part is very tongue in cheek, by the way.... )
    Last edited by lowen; January 21st, 2020 at 04:50 PM.
    --
    Thus spake Tandy Xenix System III version 3.2: "Bughlt: Sckmud Shut her down Scotty, she's sucking mud again!"

  2. #42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowen View Post
    Sure, but there's a reason for the old saying that "revenge is a dish best served cold."
    I heard that was an old Klingon saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowen View Post
    Take the blind loyalty, mix with equal parts of reliving the Glory Days of the platform of choice, and top with broiled nostalgia, and the battles of old are re-enacted on internet forums ( harumph, gimme alt.flame again!) and relived over and over. That's part of the witch's brew that drives the vintage and Retrobrew computer hobbies... It even drove me to rebuild an old and thoroughly obsolete computer based on a somewhat buggy CPU of old, the Zilog Z280.... which could have beat x86, blast it all! (That last part is very tongue in cheek, by the way.... )
    I too consider the 80s and 90s the glory days and obviously I'm going to favor DOS (particularly PC DOS 7) but I see no point in fighting old battles which were decided decades ago.

    I am curious what computer you rebuilt that used a Zilog Z280. While the original Z80 was quite common, its direct successors seemed to be rarely used and the completely different Z8000 series only notable use were the arcade games Pole Position and Pole Position II which used the limited Z8002.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Western North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,252

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by pcdosretro View Post
    I heard that was an old Klingon saying....
    At least Khan thought so, no?
    I too consider the 80s and 90s the glory days and obviously I'm going to favor DOS (particularly PC DOS 7) but I see no point in fighting old battles which were decided decades ago.
    Well, just in case I haven't done so already, let me say that your site is fantastic. While I don't have the same pathological desire to disassemble PC-DOS code like I did the Z80 LS-DOS code, I did have a PS/1 back in the day that had PC-DOS 7 loaded; I have the distribution disks here somewhere.
    I am curious what computer you rebuilt that used a Zilog Z280. While the original Z80 was quite common, its direct successors seemed to be rarely used and the completely different Z8000 series only notable use were the arcade games Pole Position and Pole Position II which used the limited Z8002.
    Well, while it's a bit off topic, as part of the Retrobrew "scene" I revived interest in and re-fabricated boards and hard to find parts kits for the hobbyist-designed ECB bus single board CPU280, originally designed and built by Tilmann Reh 28 or so years ago (https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/d...c:cpu280:start); the forum thread is at https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/f...th=93&start=0&. Forum member plasmo then took that and built a whole new design, using the 30-odd year old Z280 chip....

    The CPU280 runs CP/M 3.

    Interesting you mentioned Z8000. The Z280 in the CPU280 runs in Z-BUS mode.

    EDIT: the Z180 is quite common; the Z380 is still available new as is the eZ80, used in the latest member of the TI 84 series of graphing calculators.

    For a fun "What if?" read: http://www.desertpenguin.org/blog/wh...z180-z280.html
    Last edited by lowen; January 21st, 2020 at 07:07 PM.
    --
    Thus spake Tandy Xenix System III version 3.2: "Bughlt: Sckmud Shut her down Scotty, she's sucking mud again!"

  4. #44

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowen View Post
    Interesting though IBM actually considered the 68000 for the IBM PC. The 68000 cost too much so they went with the cheapest 16-bit option which was the 8088. Who knows what the OS would have been in that case but it's safe to assume that Motorola would be dominant instead of Intel.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Western North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,252

    Default

    And for their purposes the 8088 design is close enough to the 8085 in hardware that they could learn from the Datamaster design. 68000 would have been nice in ways, but then again it was not to be. Frank Durda would get lots of mileage about the choice made with his .sig about the Knights who say "LETNi" that demand a... SEGMENT REGISTER...... Still missing Frank....

    Lots of computers back then were developed amazingly quickly by incredibly small teams (teams of one in the case of the TRS-80's Steve Leininger and the Apple's Woz, and Chuck Peddle was amazing).
    Last edited by lowen; January 21st, 2020 at 09:36 PM.
    --
    Thus spake Tandy Xenix System III version 3.2: "Bughlt: Sckmud Shut her down Scotty, she's sucking mud again!"

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    33,365
    Blog Entries
    18

    Default

    It's been discussed before; before the debut of the 5150, the rumor mill was thick with rumors about a "new" IBM PC using the 68K. Indeed the Lab computer uses one.

    The problem is that, in 1981, yields on 68K production were very low and Motorola was the only source. The 8086 had been around in production quantities since 1979, with several licensees. The picture had changed substantially by the time Apple was selling Lisas and Macs.

    The mantra of successful product design is "second source". If your primary source endures a disaster or some other impediment to production, there's always a fall-back position. Indeed, I suspect that most 5150s and 5160s were shipped with second-source CPUs installed.

  7. #47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowen View Post
    many vintage fans are still sore that MS-DOS and the PC beat out their particular favorite system and OS back in the day.
    That's why AmigaOS is still commercially licensed software -- die-hard Amiga fans who spend hundreds on upgrades are willing to pay €29.95 for the latest version of the operating system as well, just to get a taste of the glory that could've been if their platform had prevailed over Windows and Mac.

  8. #48

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vwestlife View Post
    That's why AmigaOS is still commercially licensed software -- die-hard Amiga fans who spend hundreds on upgrades are willing to pay €29.95 for the latest version of the operating system as well, just to get a taste of the glory that could've been if their platform had prevailed over Windows and Mac.
    Some commercial entity is actually updating the OS for a long dead system ? Really ?!? The audience couldn't be more than a few hundred users.

    I wonder who the audience is for ArcaOS (basically OS/2 5.0) - I suppose a few corporate customers who still have stuff running OS/2 like the NYC transit authority. But the Amiga ?!? It's 30+ years out-of-date; even a Raspberry Pi is more powerful.

  9. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pcdosretro View Post
    Some commercial entity is actually updating the OS for a long dead system ? Really ?!? The audience couldn't be more than a few hundred users.
    Do you mean here or globally?
    PM me if you're looking for 3" or 5" floppy disks. EMail For everything else, Take Another Step

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,100
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pcdosretro View Post
    Some commercial entity is actually updating the OS for a long dead system ? Really ?!? The audience couldn't be more than a few hundred users.

    I wonder who the audience is for ArcaOS (basically OS/2 5.0) - I suppose a few corporate customers who still have stuff running OS/2 like the NYC transit authority. But the Amiga ?!? It's 30+ years out-of-date; even a Raspberry Pi is more powerful.
    Personally I take my hat of to some who keep older platforms running. Sometimes there is a use case of some old industrial gear still using such systems for control purposes. Keeping the knowledge alive is a good thing.
    Thomas Byers (DRI)- "You'll have a million people using the A> [MS-DOS prompt] forever. You'll have five million using [nongraphic] menu systems such as Topview, Concurrent PC-DOS, Desq, and those types. But there'll be 50 to 100 million using the iconic-based interfaces."

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •