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Thread: Has anyone here soldered and build a SixtyClone machine?

  1. #1
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    Default Has anyone here soldered and build a SixtyClone machine?

    Hi all.
    I recently bought a SixtyClone board, revision 250466-clone, plus the caps/resister packs that are offered optional (just to make it easy for me), and been wondering if anyone here have build their own Commodore64, using this solution?

    If so. Is there anything that I should be aware of, when building my machine. Or is it just straight forward, like every capacitor are marked correctly on the board and stuff like that.

  2. #2
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    Interesting project, I didn't know it. I just bought one too; I've chosen the 250407 model, blue mask; it uses discrete components instead of the 8701 IC, that's quite rare nowadays, and I have lots of 8kb memory chips...

    Really strange they doesn't offer a green mask board, that would be more appropriate (vintage) for the era...

    However C=64 is quite a simple machine, so if you have some skill with soldering iron, I think it will be quite straight. I would (and will!) put every IC (even the glue logic, 74xxx) on socket, a little more expensive but quite easy to fix in the future.

    Well, it will take a century to come here in Brazil, I will mount it in the next pandemia, 2120 A.D., LOL

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by giobbi View Post
    I have lots of 8kb memory chips
    I generally hate being this nitpicky, but the description for this "SixtyClone" motherboard on Tindie, etc, is completely on crack. The original Commodore 64 uses eight 64k-by-1-bit chips (4164 or equivalent), and the later one uses two 64k-by-4-bit chips (4464 or similar). They are not "8Kx8" chips, not even remotely.

    (And yes, this is nitpicky because technically a 4164 holds "8KB"-worth of information, but nobody ever refers to it as anything but a "64 kilobit" memory because it is *not* organized into bytes.)
    My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by giobbi View Post
    Interesting project, I didn't know it. I just bought one too; I've chosen the 250407 model, blue mask; it uses discrete components instead of the 8701 IC, that's quite rare nowadays, and I have lots of 8kb memory chips...

    Really strange they doesn't offer a green mask board, that would be more appropriate (vintage) for the era...

    However C=64 is quite a simple machine, so if you have some skill with soldering iron, I think it will be quite straight. I would (and will!) put every IC (even the glue logic, 74xxx) on socket, a little more expensive but quite easy to fix in the future.

    Well, it will take a century to come here in Brazil, I will mount it in the next pandemia, 2120 A.D., LOL
    The time generator have been recreated in a module that are a bit larger. For the ram, you can buy a sram module, eliminating the VSP bug.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
    I generally hate being this nitpicky, but the description for this "SixtyClone" motherboard on Tindie, etc, is completely on crack. The original Commodore 64 uses eight 64k-by-1-bit chips (4164 or equivalent), and the later one uses two 64k-by-4-bit chips (4464 or similar). They are not "8Kx8" chips, not even remotely.

    (And yes, this is nitpicky because technically a 4164 holds "8KB"-worth of information, but nobody ever refers to it as anything but a "64 kilobit" memory because it is *not* organized into bytes.)
    Well... I do not think it is that dificult to locate the real parts. There are tons of pictures of all C64 boards on the internet. However. You do need to be carefull when finding the correct parts.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by brostenen View Post
    However. You do need to be carefull when finding the correct parts.
    Again, really my only point is that if someone goes googling for an "8K RAM chip" outside of a garbled reference on a Commodore Wiki you're almost certainly going to find listings for 6264 SRAMs or equivalent, which that SixtyClone board certainly doesn't take directly.

    Are PCB boards being so rotted out that you need to replace the whole thing really a common problem with C64s? I dunno, maybe I can believe it given how many rotted traces I had to fix on my Commodore PET.
    My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
    Again, really my only point is that if someone goes googling for an "8K RAM chip" outside of a garbled reference on a Commodore Wiki you're almost certainly going to find listings for 6264 SRAMs or equivalent, which that SixtyClone board certainly doesn't take directly.
    Yup. The only sram solution that I have seen for the C64, are those special boards, that you connect into both sockets on eighter the 466 or 469 board's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
    Are PCB boards being so rotted out that you need to replace the whole thing really a common problem with C64s? I dunno, maybe I can believe it given how many rotted traces I had to fix on my Commodore PET.
    Not really. However a lot of boards have gone south, due to bad solder work or some other botched repair job.
    My original 250407 board are working perfectly. The same with my 250469 board.
    I have only bought my SixtyClone, because I want an as brand new as possible machine. (and the joy of building)

    EDIT:
    Anyone seen this RF-Modulator replacement project? Going to order boards and make one my self...
    https://github.com/mbarszcz-pcb/c64-...or-replacement

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
    Are PCB boards being so rotted out that you need to replace the whole thing really a common problem with C64s?
    Never so far. So that's why I wondered why somebody took the trouble to create these boards. If it were boards with enhancements, I could understand but these plain copies?

    Just wondering, not criticizing.
    With kind regards / met vriendelijke groet, Ruud Baltissen

    www.baltissen.org

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruud View Post
    Never so far. So that's why I wondered why somebody took the trouble to create these boards. If it were boards with enhancements, I could understand but these plain copies?

    Just wondering, not criticizing.
    Hi Ruud!

    as said before, the joy of building, LOL

    I have a broken (I mean: broken, with some part of the pcb cut out) C=64 board, a keyboard, and enough spare ICs (thank to somebody who was so nice to send me lots, some years ago to build a new C=64.
    for not to mention having a full socketed board for easy IC test...

    I suppose Covid quarantine is leaving me boring enough to join the task, too


    Giovi

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruud View Post
    Never so far. So that's why I wondered why somebody took the trouble to create these boards. If it were boards with enhancements, I could understand but these plain copies?
    It's kind of a headscratcher to me too. The C64 Reloaded board makes *some* amount of sense because it adds some enhancements and at least eliminates one notoriously unreliable custom chip, but a one-to-one replacement... yeah, not sure I get it. The C64 isn't like, say, an original Apple II where you can still build a near-replica out of off the shelf TTL parts, the only source for the vital bits is another C64. I guess there are still stocks of them out there (from sources of various degrees of sketchiness), I'm curious what the price tag would be if you actually bought all the chips individually from reputable sources instead of scavenging yourself.
    My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs

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