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Thread: Got some PDP8 papertapes and books today

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Huisman View Post
    Yes I know, but in this case the full length of the tape is punched for the highest bit. So this is not a parity in this case.
    It *is* parity. MARK parity, to be specific.

    So you are looking for a way to transfer a file from your PC to your PDP-8, so that you can then punch it? And it's a binary file?
    Yes, I would think KERMIT might be a good idea then. But I would have to check a few more things, since binary files don't have any logical end of file, and just the physical one. Which then needs to be catered for. Can't remember for sure if either KERMIT-12 nor my KERMIT-8 will deal with that (I haven't properly looked at the code I wrote in more than 20 years...)

    But if you already have written programs to feed to paper tape to serial port, why not just do the other way as well? No need to dump it down on the file system at all. Or if you want to, you could just as well write your own small program that receives data on the serial port, and writes it to a file.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by bqt View Post
    It *is* parity. MARK parity, to be specific.
    Ah off course! Didn't think about that...

    Quote Originally Posted by bqt View Post
    So you are looking for a way to transfer a file from your PC to your PDP-8, so that you can then punch it?
    No... I have the original paper tapes. I just read the plain 8 bits from tape with the PDP8
    and sent that to the serial port. That is done by that simple 8 line program which I wrote.
    Check my second posting.

    I just want a Telix like program running on a modern Windows 10 PC to which I can say:

    " Hey here you have data on the serial port. Store every byte in a file without any modification "

    Nothing more, nothing less... It should not be too difficult?

    So in the end I have some files which I can share. Then other people can use these
    files to upload them trough GTTY or even punch their own paper tapes.
    WTB: Case for Altair 8800 ...... Rolands Github projects

  3. #13

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    Maybe you get the file to a serial port of a modern machine with an USB serial device. Then you use socat to dump the serial data into a file, something like:

    socat /dev/ttyUSB0,echo=0,raw STDOUT > /path/to/downloaded/file

  4. #14

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    Well, that wouldn't work on a Windows 10 box, unless you had the Linux subsystem installed maybe. Curious, though, wouldn't copy /b COMn: file.bin get basically the correct result? It's been a while since I had to muck around with anything like that, admittedly...
    Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
    Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Moog Satellite, Oberheim SEM
    "'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup

  5. #15
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    Re the Hamurabi game, yes, I'm sure I've seen a later version of this, prob BASIC.

    Yes, this version is VERY short. Far too short. At least half the game is missing. Your listing goes as far as 4.3x, I think, but there are links (as per goto or gosub ?) to 7.? amd even 9.? OK, I've never set eyes on a FOCAL prog before, so I'm making an educated guess about that, but assuming normal logic about any prog language this MUST be so! Is there something wrong with the tape, or is this all there is?

    Thanks anyway.

    Geoff
    Vintage Devices: Epson HX-20/TF-20, Amstrad PCW 8256 (with extras), 386 and 486 PCs with 5.25 and 3.5 floppy drives, Pentium 75 with Roland LAPC-I midi card

  6. #16

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    Vince mentioned GTTY which I use quite often to upload paper tapes to my machines. GTTY can do exactly
    what I want. You open a new file, store the bytes which you throw into the COM port, then close the file.

    About the Hamurabi game, I can read the tape again for you to check if I did something wrong.
    But the tape is also very short and I have no clue about Focal programs. The other Focal programs
    are also very tiny...
    WTB: Case for Altair 8800 ...... Rolands Github projects

  7. #17
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    Roland,

    Thanks for the offer, but..

    I don't think that 'readng the tape again' will help much. There seems to be too much missing. Assuming that I'm looking at the existing code correctly. I'd guess that the previous owner (the museum) were merely interested in the 'look' of the punch tape and had no interest or even understanding of the actual code on it, and kept only enough to substantiate the 'look'. Maybe the other items you have are similarly cut short? Prob fine for display in a museum.

    I think I've got a reference to a BASIC listing re Creative Computing (Ahl) for what looks like a complete prog. It may be that later versions were 90%+ the same logic. I'd guess that the bit we've got will match pretty well to the beginning of the complete prog.

    Again, thanks anyway.

    Geoff
    Vintage Devices: Epson HX-20/TF-20, Amstrad PCW 8256 (with extras), 386 and 486 PCs with 5.25 and 3.5 floppy drives, Pentium 75 with Roland LAPC-I midi card

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnupublic View Post
    Maybe you get the file to a serial port of a modern machine with an USB serial device. Then you use socat to dump the serial data into a file, something like:

    socat /dev/ttyUSB0,echo=0,raw STDOUT > /path/to/downloaded/file
    That is a cool idea. Saves cleaning up an ASCII dump with sed and xxd to get back to a raw binary
    Thanks!

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffB17 View Post
    I don't think that 'readng the tape again' will help much. There seems to be too much missing. Assuming that I'm looking at the existing code correctly.
    Well, I don't know the history of the tapes. Maybe it was the work of a student to make some sort of proof of concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffB17 View Post
    I'd guess that the previous owner (the museum) were merely interested in the 'look' of the punch tape and had no interest or even understanding of the actual code on it, and kept only enough to substantiate the 'look'.
    Don't blame the museum on anything... That museum just got a bunch of stuff and these tapes and books were with it.
    They didn't do anything with it. Just passed it on to me. They have been told that there used to be a Straight 8
    to run the software on the tapes. That machine was sold back then to do accounting for a company on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffB17 View Post
    Maybe the other items you have are similarly cut short? Prob fine for display in a museum.
    The tape is absolutely not cut off halfway the program! All the Focal files end with that * and seem to be complete.
    WTB: Case for Altair 8800 ...... Rolands Github projects

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Huisman View Post

    No... I have the original paper tapes. I just read the plain 8 bits from tape with the PDP8
    and sent that to the serial port. That is done by that simple 8 line program which I wrote.
    Check my second posting.

    I just want a Telix like program running on a modern Windows 10 PC to which I can say:

    " Hey here you have data on the serial port. Store every byte in a file without any modification "

    Nothing more, nothing less... It should not be too difficult?

    So in the end I have some files which I can share. Then other people can use these
    files to upload them trough GTTY or even punch their own paper tapes.
    Oh. I see. So the problem is on the receiving side. You want something that stuffs the bytes you are getting over the serial port into a file.

    If you are using something like Putty, I seem to remember that you can turn on that it should log your session to a file. Turn that on, run your program, turn it off again.
    Then edit out the bytes in the beginning and end, which comes from your interaction with the system.

    Wouldn't that solve it for you?

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