Image Map Image Map
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 34

Thread: Got some PDP8 papertapes and books today

  1. #1

    Default Got some PDP8 papertapes and books today

    Today I got some papertape software and some PDP8 books from a Dutch museum.
    I have seen a few of them online already. I was wondering if some people recognises the others...

    1.jpg

    This seems to be an Algol-60 compiler:

    Rog Algol full compiler source
    Rog Algol Basic compiler
    Rog Algol compiler options
    2.jpg

    I actually found a manual for that compiler at archive.org
    But I can't find much about it...

    Two PAL8 sources and a compiled program start address 200
    3.jpg

    PS/8 config tape source (1 of 2 and 2 of 2)
    4.jpg

    I guess a few demo tapes for Focal mostly Dutch named.
    Rechthoekige driehoeken (Rectangular triangles)
    repeterende breuken (repetitive divisions)
    Whats the date
    Magisch vierkant (magic square)
    HAMARUBI (Whatever that might be)
    Dobbelspelletje (Dice game)
    5.jpg

    And a few books
    6.jpg

    Except the Rog Algol compiler I don't think it is anything special.
    If there is anything interesting then I can read the tapes.
    But if everything is already online then then I don't want to waste my time.

    Does anyone know that Rog Algol compiler?

    Regards, Roland
    Last edited by Roland Huisman; May 29th, 2020 at 07:28 AM.
    WTB: Case for Altair 8800 ...... Rolands Github projects

  2. #2

    Default

    I made a little program for the PDP8 to sent the PC04 data to the second serial port.

    200 7300 // clear link and AC
    201 6016 // read paper tape into AC
    202 6011 // skip on ready
    203 5202 // not ready, check again
    204 6416 // write AC to second serial output
    205 6411 // skip on ready
    206 5205 // not ready, check again
    207 5200 // done, go to next byte
    I used Tera term to read the ASCII files. These are attached here.
    But I had to set Tera Term to 7+1 to actually read the files.
    The same problem occurs with OS8 btw... But you are missing that last bit here.
    Has anyone a good tool to store binary data from paper tape?

    I have attached a few of the paper tapes, but not sure if they are correct.

    Regards, Roland


    whats the date.txt
    repeterende breuken.txt
    rechthoekige driehoeken.txt
    ps8 2-2.txt
    ps8 1-2.txt
    magisch vierkant.txt
    hamarubi.txt
    dobbelsteen.txt
    WTB: Case for Altair 8800 ...... Rolands Github projects

  3. #3

    Default

    That Algol 60 seems to be a piece of Dutch history. Edsger W. Dijkstra worked on the first
    version for the Electrologica X1 And Edsger W. Dijkstra was also the inventor of the interrupt
    That RogAlgol does not appear in that WiKipage about Algol 60.

    And fast running tape can have its disadvantages... Paper jam...
    I could reconstruct the data so no real problem here...

    7 Paperjam 1.jpg 8 Paperjam 2.jpg

    And I see what is happening regarding those ASCII tapes. The old ASCII table was 7 bit data.
    00 000 000 - 01 111 111 (bin) / 0000 - 0177 (oct) / 0 - 127 (dec) / 0 - 7F (hex)

    The 'modern' ASCII is 8 bits adding one bit for the extended table.
    00 000 000 - 11 111 111 (bin) / 0000 - 0377 (oct) / 0 - 255 (dec) / 0 - FF (hex)

    The old paper tapes which I have have that high bit set to a 1. So that interferes with the modern ASCII table.
    So every character which is read from those tapes is represented as a character in the extended list.

    Ascii bit high.jpg

    So my PDP8 program is working okay. But does anyone have a good program to receive
    raw binary data from an external computer trough the serial port?

    Regards, Roland
    Last edited by Roland Huisman; May 29th, 2020 at 11:33 PM.
    WTB: Case for Altair 8800 ...... Rolands Github projects

  4. #4

    Default

    I made a quick YouTube film about reading the tapes...
    That nasty H960 case fan needs new bearings -again-


    Looking at the structure of these .PA programs they are intended for the PAL8 assembler.

    alglod.pa.txt
    algfi.pa.txt

    This is the RogAlgol full compiler source.
    RogAlgol source.txt

    I had to read it in three stages, it didn't fit into my PC04 at all...
    9 three stage reading.jpg

    But I don't have a clue how to compile that.
    It seems to be a higher program language.

    -still looking for a program to capture raw data from serial port on a PC-
    WTB: Case for Altair 8800 ...... Rolands Github projects

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Huisman View Post
    But I don't have a clue how to compile that.
    It seems to be a higher program language.-
    Well it looks to me that this might be the RogAlgol compiler written in Algol.
    there is a binary tape starting at address 200. That might be te compiler itself.
    WTB: Case for Altair 8800 ...... Rolands Github projects

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    1,349
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    It is common for paper tape era computers to use some 7-bit + parity variant to store characters, also on paper tape, so watch out for that. Example: ND (Norsk Data) machines use 7 bit + even parity.
    Torfinn

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Guisborough, England
    Posts
    243

    Default

    Just a side note,

    The item HAMARUBI might be Hamurabi, if so, this is a fairly famous game, and this might be a VERY old version, maybe even a copy of the original version - I think it was written way back, maybe in FOCAL. This might be of historical interest, if it's not archived elsewhere?

    It's a 'management of resources' type game, you play the Sumarian king Hammurabi, and are trying to ruly your kingdom and allocate food, money, etc.

    Geoff
    Vintage Devices: Epson HX-20/TF-20, Amstrad PCW 8256 (with extras), 386 and 486 PCs with 5.25 and 3.5 floppy drives, Pentium 75 with Roland LAPC-I midi card

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Zurich, CH
    Posts
    183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Huisman View Post
    And I see what is happening regarding those ASCII tapes. The old ASCII table was 7 bit data.
    00 000 000 - 01 111 111 (bin) / 0000 - 0177 (oct) / 0 - 127 (dec) / 0 - 7F (hex)

    The 'modern' ASCII is 8 bits adding one bit for the extended table.
    00 000 000 - 11 111 111 (bin) / 0000 - 0377 (oct) / 0 - 255 (dec) / 0 - FF (hex)

    The old paper tapes which I have have that high bit set to a 1. So that interferes with the modern ASCII table.
    So every character which is read from those tapes is represented as a character in the extended list.

    Ascii bit high.jpg

    So my PDP8 program is working okay. But does anyone have a good program to receive
    raw binary data from an external computer trough the serial port?

    Regards, Roland
    Technically, ASCII is still 7 bits. However, much software, especially older, uses serial communication with 7 bits and mark parity, which is why you see all those ones in the high bit.
    Works fine if you also set your terminal to 7 bits, mark parity.

    The problems comes when you think you can run 8 bit clean. For normal operation, that is commonly not really possible. If you were to clean up a lot of the software, it will work fine. There are no hardware issues in here. It's just that the software is setting the high bit all over the place.

    For binary stuff, the paper tapes are already 8 bit clean.

    Not sure what you are thinking about when you say "receive raw binary data from an external computer through the serial port". If your external computer is set to use 8 bits on the serial line, and you send text, then it will arrive at the PDP-8 without the mark parity that much software expects, and it might not be impressed.
    But if you have your own program running, it can of course accept all 8 bits just fine, and do whatever you want with them.

    If we're talking about transferring binary files, then why not use KERMIT?

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tingo View Post
    It is common for paper tape era computers to use some 7-bit + parity variant to store characters, also on paper tape, so watch out for that. Example: ND (Norsk Data) machines use 7 bit + even parity.
    Yes I know, but in this case the full length of the tape is punched for the highest bit. So this is not a parity in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffB17 View Post
    Just a side note, The item HAMARUBI might be Hamurabi, if so, this is a fairly famous game, and this might be a VERY old version, maybe even a copy of the original version - I think it was written way back, maybe in FOCAL. This might be of historical interest, if it's not archived elsewhere? It's a 'management of resources' type game, you play the Sumarian king Hammurabi, and are trying to ruly your kingdom and allocate food, money, etc. Geoff
    It seems that it is that FOCAL game indeed. You can read the source in this topic already. But it is a quite small game.

    Quote Originally Posted by bqt View Post
    But if you have your own program running, it can of course accept all 8 bits just fine, and do whatever you want with them.
    Yes as you can see I'm running my own program at the PDP to sent the paper tape image to a PC.
    Just the plain 8 bits of paper tape data to 8 bits serial data. Nothing special. Don't care about being parity or whatever...
    I just want to generate a paper tape image file which some one else can use.

    Quote Originally Posted by bqt View Post
    If we're talking about transferring binary files, then why not use KERMIT?
    I will check Kermit if it is able to store received bits into a binary file. In the mean while I have asked
    Vince about that he uses for the paper tape images on his site.
    WTB: Case for Altair 8800 ...... Rolands Github projects

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Zurich, CH
    Posts
    183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Huisman View Post
    Yes I know, but in this case the full length of the tape is punched for the highest bit. So this is not a parity in this case.
    It *is* parity. MARK parity, to be specific.

    So you are looking for a way to transfer a file from your PC to your PDP-8, so that you can then punch it? And it's a binary file?
    Yes, I would think KERMIT might be a good idea then. But I would have to check a few more things, since binary files don't have any logical end of file, and just the physical one. Which then needs to be catered for. Can't remember for sure if either KERMIT-12 nor my KERMIT-8 will deal with that (I haven't properly looked at the code I wrote in more than 20 years...)

    But if you already have written programs to feed to paper tape to serial port, why not just do the other way as well? No need to dump it down on the file system at all. Or if you want to, you could just as well write your own small program that receives data on the serial port, and writes it to a file.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •