Image Map Image Map
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 53

Thread: The AT as a minicomputer/server

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    4,902
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tipc View Post
    . . . Novell already produced a concurrent os, originally called Netware-86, and there was even an earlier 68k version, and a box to run it (anyone got one? lol)
    No box but I do have a set of Novell software 3.5" floppy's.
    Surely not everyone was Kung-fu fighting

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Principality of Xeon W-2140B the Great State of Central New Jerky
    Posts
    2,214

    Default

    Do they say Netware-68 or something similar? If they do you have a buyer in me. Fo sho.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    4,902
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tipc View Post
    Do they say Netware-68 or something similar? If they do you have a buyer in me. Fo sho.
    What I have is a this:

    Personal NetWare v1.0 (English)
    Tutorial Disk 1
    Disk 1 of 1 136-004001-001

    Novell DOS 7 (English)
    Installation + Utilities 1
    Disk 1 of 6 136-003448-031

    Novell DOS 7 (English)
    Utilities 2
    Disk 2 of 6 136-003449-031

    Novell DOS 7 (English)
    Utilities 3
    Disk 3 of 6 136-003450-001

    Novell DOS 7 (English)
    Utilities 4
    Disk 4 of 6 136-003451-001

    Novell DOS 7 (English)
    Utilities 5
    Disk 3 of 6 136-003452-001

    Novell DOS 7 (English)
    Utilities 6
    Disk 6 of 6 136-003639-001

    [Note: All disks] (c) 1983-1993 NOVELL, INC ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
    7120363-00-D
    Surely not everyone was Kung-fu fighting

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Principality of Xeon W-2140B the Great State of Central New Jerky
    Posts
    2,214

    Default

    I have PNW already. Any version that'll run on a peecee will likely not run on my intended target. Although it hosts IBM compatible hardware, it specifically is not a pc compatible. Iow if any stock version of NW will run on my NS Dimension, it's very very early and pretty darned unobtainium.

    Whether it ran or not, I'd still love to have copies of Netware-86 and -68. Just necause they're groovy as all get out.

  5. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by falter View Post
    I've never seen an AT with that boot message. Need to find someone with a super early, unmodified one to confirm.
    I've got first revision with the 6mhz cpu and the piggypack ram, and I don't think I've ever seen this message. It's got the original BIOS. The only thing that seems to have been changed is at some point the graphics card was replaced with an aftermarket cga card and the original hard drive was replaced with a seagate, probably for obvious reasons.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    5,007
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Interesting. I might reach out to George and see if I can get more info.

    I've been getting more into research with my youtube channel and separating fact from fiction is really tough. Even just understanding how Gary Kildall passed has been hard. There are authoritative sources that claim he wore unearned biker gang patches into the bar that he 'fell at. But other sources I've found say he simply fell at a bar, possibly stroke or aneurysm, was alive for two more days, went to hospital after not feeling well and died 2 days later, never mentioning anything about being beat up. On the same site I read Wenzel's 'testimony', I read a story of Gary being so despondent about having to go into work that he drove 3 times around the block before finally going in. I don't know how you sort this stuff out.

  7. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tipc View Post
    4 port serial boards were not uncommon exactly. I own 2, 1 is branded Intel and was purchased weeks ago. Far more often then not they sport 80186s. Personally I've never seen an 8 port card, but so what.
    I have a full-length 4-port card that has room for an additional four UARTs, but it's 16C550s so not likely AT-era.

    Anyway, the most unlikely-seeming part of this story is the part where IBM wants to make a low-cost small-business minicomputer. Every story I've ever heard about IBM corporate thinking points in exactly the opposite direction, including the part where they throttled the AT specifically to prevent it from eating into the market share of the lower-end minicomputer offerings.
    Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
    Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Moog Satellite, Oberheim SEM
    "'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Outer Mongolia
    Posts
    2,774

    Default

    This story sounds like it's an amalgam of several disparate pieces of hearsay, and while I certainly wasn't there to judge I think this broad pronouncement that the 5170 was solely intended to be marketed as this "AT Multiuser System" is a load of bunk. I wouldn't rule out that IBM may have investigated making a special version of the AT that fit that description, they dabbled in all sorts of mostly-for-vertical-markets stuff, but claiming that it was the original intent of the hardware? I call BS.

    The source of the text in the OP seems to be This page on Gaby's CP/M homepage. Some of the claims like this mysterious BIOS message are obviously spurious; unless someone can actually find an AT that identifies itself like this then the whole story starts off on the wrong foot. As to the particular claims about the 286 CPU, The Wikipedia page for "MultiUser DOS" relates some of the challenges in trying to convert "MPM/286" into a DOS-compatible operating system that could handle "ill-behaved" software, and the nut of it essentially was Intel kept fiddling with the mostly undocumented "LOADALL" instruction in ways that broke their hacky method of trapping direct hardware access attempts on a CPU that lacked the necessary hardware in the MMU to do it. (Like the later 80386.) This didn't really have anything to do with IBM, although there is some evidence that IBM and Microsoft did initially consider attempting to use this same method to do real mode multitasking with OS/2 only to discard it thanks to a combination of hit-and-miss compatibility and performance problems.

    The dates generally don't line up for the AT to have been intended to debut with Concurrent DOS as its intended OS, and there were plenty of other operating systems for the AT which could have made use of a multi-port serial card (Xenix, for instance), so details like "The 8-port serial boards were ground into dust" really don't make any sense. I'm not going to say the source of this story is "lying", but I do think he's probably both misremembering some details and overstating the perceived importance of the project he was working on to IBM.
    My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs

  9. #19

    Default

    Nothing adds up:

    • I have owned an original 6Mhz IBM AT for 30 years. I've never seen "AT Multiuser System" anywhere before I read this post.
    • The meeting between Killdall and IBM was in 1980.
    • The Intel 80286 was not introduced until February 1982.



    IBM did probably intend to launch the IBM AT with a proper multi-tasking OS. That would have been OS/2. But the CP/M vs. DOS negotiations happened long before the IBM AT was a twinkle in anybody's eye.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,167
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    There was Concurrent CP/M. MP/M
    Last edited by Caluser2000; August 5th, 2020 at 11:33 AM.
    Thomas Byers (DRI)- "You'll have a million people using the A> [MS-DOS prompt] forever. You'll have five million using [nongraphic] menu systems such as Topview, Concurrent PC-DOS, Desq, and those types. But there'll be 50 to 100 million using the iconic-based interfaces."

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •