Image Map Image Map
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 53

Thread: Linux: Upgrade version or reinstall?

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Principality of Xeon W-2140B the Great State of Central New Jerky
    Posts
    2,357

    Default

    Yup. Keep 'em coming. One right after the other. The more the merrier.

    The best method to ensure no data loss is redundancy regardless of how youe primary hard drive is whacked up.

    You can have multiple partitions with windows or any os. I had a friend from Egypt some years ago that was amazed most Yankee hard drives only have 1. (And before some weisenheimer tries to correct me by stating every windows install for some time has 2, well the point is entirely irrelevant and you know it).
    Last edited by tipc; October 17th, 2020 at 12:32 AM.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Western North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,403

    Default

    I have done very similar to Chuck in my partitioning, but going a bit farther with it. I typically have a /, a /var, a /home, and a /opt. / is on SSD these days. My laptop, a Dell Precision M6700, has two 2.5 SATA bays plus an mSATA connection. It's nice to not have to be concerned about drive letters; even as far back as Windows NT 4 the same concept of a mount point was available.

    If all my stuff would fit in 2TB I could run a couple of 2TB drives in RAID 1 easily enough; but with all the virtual machines I have loaded I need 3TB.....

    Chuck, when you said a separate /usr that rang a bell with me; back in my Tandy 6000 days I ran a system with two drives for a while; one drive was / and one drive was /usr since user homes were in /usr in System III Xenix.

    These days I'm on CentOS. I did a new install to CentOS 8 a few months ago. Now, I did reset the configuration directories, because I have found from experience that giving them a cleanup before a major GNOME update is a good thing.

    Unlike many, I don't have a problem with systemd. /var/messages and friends are still there, and I really like the way systemctl status gives more detail than just "yeah, I started it back at boot."

    Virtually every distribution has moved to systemd; it's not going away. For me, if all of Debian, Ubuntu, and SuSE go that way (Red Hat doesn't count since Poettering is an RH employee) then there's something there. ESPECIALLY if Debian goes there, since they have no commercial interest driving their governance. Lots of people disagree, and that's ok; open source means choice, and choice is good.
    Last edited by lowen; October 17th, 2020 at 05:49 AM.
    --
    Thus spake Tandy Xenix System III version 3.2: "Bughlt: Sckmud Shut her down Scotty, she's sucking mud again!"

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    35,369
    Blog Entries
    18

    Default

    I've tried running the systemd-less version of current Ubuntu; it was more trouble than it was worth, given the current configuration. I can't say that I [b]like[b] systemd, but it's easier getting along with it than hating it.

    On a related note, I've been reading about 18.04LTS being the last 32-bit Ubuntu. On the other hand, my ARM-based 32-bit mailserver is running 20.05.1 Armbian Buster, so the excuse of "Nobody runs 32-bit software any more" by the Ubuntu crowd is a bit disingenuous.

  4. #44

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck(G) View Post
    On a related note, I've been reading about 18.04LTS being the last 32-bit Ubuntu. On the other hand, my ARM-based 32-bit mailserver is running 20.05.1 Armbian Buster, so the excuse of "Nobody runs 32-bit software any more" by the Ubuntu crowd is a bit disingenuous.
    I think the ARM based distros have a little more traction with 32-bit support than x86. For 32-bit support on x86, the Raspberry Pi Foundation has built a distro mimicking their ARM based distro. I've installed it on my old Asus EeePC 900 (with '/home' mounted on an SD card) and it provides a Debian based OS with Raspberry Pi's tweaked LXDE desktop. An adequate desktop system for 1 GB RAM and an Atom CPU while still being somewhat up-to-date.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    35,369
    Blog Entries
    18

    Default

    As far as I know, Debian hasn't announced plans to discontinue x32 support. A release guide for bullseye has just escaped.

    Aren't there still a substantial number of old P4 systems out there?

  6. #46

    Default

    I've always upgraded from version to version on Slackware Linux. I've been doing it for nearly 20 years, no problem. Being able to upgrade or move hard disks to other machines seemlessly was one of the reasons why I switched from other OSes.

    Slackware Linux in principle is simple. They are just tar files that unzip. On upgrade, old files removed. Program configuration files are not overwritten or removed. So when you upgrade it leaves a ".new" file for you to consider how to migrate. So upgrading consists of you unzipping (essentially) and updating files as needed, and it's been flawless for me.

    To do a clean install of Slackware, it's basically unzipping these packages to a fresh drive, and since these are original files, you have to edit your configuration anyway. If this wipe-and-install to move to the latest, then you look at your old config files you backed up and migrate in the settings. It's basically the same thing.

    Other Linuxes I have used have taken the approach of using scripting to migrate the config files for you. Or they go a step further and implement a high level configuration system to manage your settings that ties everything together that only this distro can do. I've found these systems that try to make things easy end up breaking things. Enter SystemD, and further integration of all programs on a distro makes things more delicate. No wonder upgrading is still getting a bad rep.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Western North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,403

    Default

    Virtually everything said about slackware tar.gz packages is also true about .rpm or .deb packages; in the specific case of .rpm, they're just cpio archives, compressed, with some metadata.

    The hard part comes when you have a package like, say PostgreSQL, where a major version upgrade can break things. Then it's not so simple as just unpacking the archive. (I know that one: I maintained the PostgreSQL RPMs for five years some years back). And this difficulty has nothing to do with systemd or upstart or any other init system; it's a matter of designing in upgradability.

    I'm told that Fedora is pretty good with upgrading; I've not tried in some time. I know I had some upgrades go south in the Fedora 10 timeframe related to KDE and kmail, which I used at the time. I then experimented with some old Ubuntu, but that wasn't noticably better. Since then I've just decided that starting from scratch every few years is a good thing for my own organization (or lack thereof), and since I run CentOS it's usually more than a few years before I need to worry about it.

    I've been doing the Linux thing for a long time, 24 years at this point, and I'm happy with what CentOS brings to the table, so far at least....

    Again, you have a choice with open source; slackware is one good choice. So is OPEN BAD or Freebase or NetBSD for that matter.
    --
    Thus spake Tandy Xenix System III version 3.2: "Bughlt: Sckmud Shut her down Scotty, she's sucking mud again!"

  8. #48

    Default

    The chief reason I run Fedora isn't because loyalty or any particular preference but simply because I'm one of those ppc64le Raptor users, and F28 was the only out-of-the-box distro that worked for us early adopters. (Debian had "support," but it was really rough.) It hasn't cheesed me off enough yet to stop using it though nowadays I'd advise new ppc64le users to run Void. It has a very well-managed PowerPC port which even works pretty well on 32-bit big-endian.

    IBM bought Red Hat for RHEL on s390x and ppc64le. Fedora isn't a priority to IBM, and ppc64le isn't a priority to Fedora, though I know some very dedicated people at Red Hat who work primarily on ppc64le Fedora. If I could only convince them to stop this weird self-destructive fascination with Wayland (and, yes, systemd, though that war seems to be lost).

    On a server, though, I'd just run a BSD. FreeBSD works pretty well on ppc64.
    I use my C128 because I am an ornery, stubborn, retro grouch. -- Bob Masse
    Various projects and oddities: http://oldvcr.blogspot.com/
    Machine room: http://www.floodgap.com/etc/machines.html

  9. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowen View Post
    Virtually everything said about slackware tar.gz packages is also true about .rpm or .deb packages; in the specific case of .rpm, they're just cpio archives, compressed, with some metadata.

    The hard part comes when you have a package like, say PostgreSQL, where a major version upgrade can break things. Then it's not so simple as just unpacking the archive. (I know that one: I maintained the PostgreSQL RPMs for five years some years back).
    Yes, I am aware of the formats. I didn't suggest that a slackware package is just a tar xzf on upgrade either, and I know rpm's and deb's capabilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowen View Post
    And this difficulty has nothing to do with systemd or upstart or any other init system; it's a matter of designing in upgradability.
    I didn't suggest that SystemD has anything to do with packaging an upgrade-able package of postgresql or this being an init system choice. I was saying that SystemD is an example of complexity in distro design more prone to failure.

    Slackware packages are different in the sense it doesn't try to be magic for your system administration. It gives you the application as it is and if you upgrade, you are shown the path you need to go in migrating.

    Anyway, I prefer less magic in packaging "designing in upgradability" and in system administration. Install the program and don't touch my files. It has never failed.
    Last edited by the3dfxdude; October 17th, 2020 at 05:49 PM.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    35,369
    Blog Entries
    18

    Default

    I confess that the last Slackware version that I tried was 1.0, so I can't comment on its current suitability. Still have the CDs, however.

    I still have Yggdrasil Linux CDs, for that matter.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •