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Fantasizing about the ultimate retro computing monitor...

chjmartin2

chjmartin2

Experienced Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2012
Messages
433
As I have been working on a recent project trying to see how the ATI VGA Wonder (and EGA Wonder at that) are able to display more than 16 colors on a TTL CGA Monitor. I haven't worked it out yet and likely it is some kind of interlaced blending or flickering (but wow it sure doesn't look like it.) Anyway, I went ahead and tried to plug in two monitors at once to the card and I was SHOCKED to discover that the VGA Wonder 16 is outputting SOME KIND of 15 KHz signal on the VGA/RGB port when the CGA Monitor is plugged in. Anyway I don't have an VGA Monitor that is 15 KHz compatible so I can't tell if there is any kind of signal at all or if it is just some sync signal. I said, well maybe I can just buy one - and then I discovered - holy cow they are extremely rare and now very expensive. I went ahead and then thought about it and I realized that CRT monitors are really becoming more rare. I know there are a lot out there but I see all manner of tools to allow retro devices to be hooked up to modern displays - a really cool one being this. (It simulates ARTIFACT COLORS!!!) Anyway I really love CRT Monitors and the retro experience for me is complete when I can use it. The other day playing Silpheed on a CGA Monitor with 16 colors and it just reminded me why I love the CRTs as much as I do. It makes me laugh that modern Pixel artists make things look so perfect when in fact it was so far from that and the grid was part of the image. Anyway, it just got me thinking about what would be the perfect Retro-CRT monitor and I am curious what people think. If you were going to build a modern CRT display for use with old machines what would you want it to be able to do? What would be the ideal size? What feature set would you want? What resolution capability would you need? Here is my view:

Size: I think 15 inches is plenty and would be happy enough with even 13 inch.
Frequency Response: True Multisync - from 15 Khz all the way to 100 KHz
Inputs: Composite, S-Video, Component, 9 PIN TTL (CGA/EGA/VGA), 15 PIN VGA Analog
Features: Can set mode to Amber, Green or B&W Monochrome, Artifact Colors even if using TTL or VGA Analog inputs

What else? What on-screen controls would you need? What adjustments? Should it be 4:3 or something else?

As a side note, I wouldn't know the first thing on how to get started but there is a manufacturer in New York that still makes CRTs, but you would still have to design the display circuit, inputs, design a case and have that made too. Anyway, I am just talking here as I really would like to be able to BUY one. It would probably prove too expensive but so are the old ones that are getting harder to keep running.

Would like others thoughts on this...

Thanks,

Chris
 
Mitsubishi also had a 20-inch version of the Diamond Scan. I remember seeing them in a CAD lab.

Sony also had a Trinitron computer monitor with 0.25mm dot pitch which could sync down to 15 kHz.
 
One thing I find lackluster with VGA/HDMI conversions of CGA is the lack of contrast between the normal intensity and high intensity colors. With a true CGA monitor, the bright colors really pop out at you. (Same thing with the bright text of MDA, too.) With LCD monitors you just don't get that same kind of effect.
 
vwestlife said:
One thing I find lackluster with VGA/HDMI conversions of CGA is the lack of contrast between the normal intensity and high intensity colors. With a true CGA monitor, the bright colors really pop out at you. (Same thing with the bright text of MDA, too.) With LCD monitors you just don't get that same kind of effect.
Click to expand...

I would imagine using the EternalCRT on a VGA CRT monitor would yield the result you desire, although I have only used mine on LCD monitors. I haven't had a true VGA CRT in the shop for some time now.

Does anyone else here use the EternalCRT on a VGA CRT monitor that can report results?
 
vwestlife said:
Sony also had a Trinitron computer monitor with 0.25mm dot pitch which could sync down to 15 kHz.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the Sony Multiscan CDP1302? I had a couple of those--IIRC, you could get to 800x600 VGA. Every time the scan rate changed, you'd hear relays clicking. Not nearly as versatile as the Mitsubishi model.

I moved from the small screen models and went to the fixed-frequency workstation monitors. For a time I used a 19" one from a Daisy workstation. Bloody thing weighed at least 70 lbs. Then I went to a 17" HP Trinitron for VGA.
 
chjmartin2 said:
Anyway I don't have an VGA Monitor that is 15 KHz compatible so I can't tell if there is any kind of signal at all or if it is just some sync signal. I said, well maybe I can just buy one - and then I discovered - holy cow they are extremely rare and now very expensive. I went ahead and then thought about it and I realized that CRT monitors are really becoming more rare.
Click to expand...

Kind of off-topic, but it's really annoying that the ubiquitous multi-input LCD driver boards don't support analog RGB at 15Khz. I bought one (paired with an awful rotgut LCD) off eBay a couple years ago specifically to see if it could be made to work after discovering a suite of tools for programming the Realtek scaler that's on almost all of them, but after much failure and squinting at the (not entirely english) datasheets it genuinely appears that the inability to use RGB at lower-than-VGA frequencies is built into the chip despite the fact that they support NTSC and PAL frequencies on the composite/BNC inputs. Someone should let Realtek know there would be a market wide open if they were to remove that clearly artificial limitation; if it wasn't for that one of those boards, a couple TTL ICs, and a few resistors would make for a passable mass-market CGA monitor. (And of course just supporting analog at NTSC frequencies would automatically enable them to work with other retrocomputers and arcade boards.)
 
Eudimorphodon said:
Kind of off-topic, but it's really annoying that the ubiquitous multi-input LCD driver boards don't support analog RGB at 15Khz. I bought one (paired with an awful rotgut LCD) off eBay a couple years ago specifically to see if it could be made to work after discovering a suite of tools for programming the Realtek scaler that's on almost all of them, but after much failure and squinting at the (not entirely english) datasheets it genuinely appears that the inability to use RGB at lower-than-VGA frequencies is built into the chip despite the fact that they support NTSC and PAL frequencies on the composite/BNC inputs. Someone should let Realtek know there would be a market wide open if they were to remove that clearly artificial limitation; if it wasn't for that one of those boards, a couple TTL ICs, and a few resistors would make for a passable mass-market CGA monitor. (And of course just supporting analog at NTSC frequencies would automatically enable them to work with other retrocomputers and arcade boards.)
Click to expand...

Not entirely off topic - I agree with you - very unfortunate.
 
For me it's my NEC Multisync II JC-1402-HWA that I rescued from the recycle bin that's my ultimate. It works with everything from my Tandy 1000 all the way to my current modern Linux machine. Somehow that crazy thing made it up to 1024x768 at one point without dying which kind of surprises me (Seagate Disc Wizard). Had it 4 years and oddly the picture quality has gotten better with use - it's a keeper.
 
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