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Was wondering what this terminal/computer is

You "lowballed" a Ball Brother's terminal? :mrgreen: (I've always hated the accusation of "lowballing" and sellers getting offended by it. How low is "lowballing"?)

How much was shipping? I'd expect it to be pretty extreme across Canada. I don't know why Americans can get free shipping on something like this, but within Canada, it can cost over $100.

I've never seen this terminal anywhere in my searching. The Terminals Wiki doesn't even have an entry for the manufacturer.
 
You "lowballed" a Ball Brother's terminal? :mrgreen: (I've always hated the accusation of "lowballing" and sellers getting offended by it. How low is "lowballing"?)

How much was shipping? I'd expect it to be pretty extreme across Canada. I don't know why Americans can get free shipping on something like this, but within Canada, it can cost over $100.

I've never seen this terminal anywhere in my searching. The Terminals Wiki doesn't even have an entry for the manufacturer.

Shipping was $165. Sometimes sellers are willing to work to reduce that... but sometimes they stick to the particular mode they've chosen or estimate and I didn't want to take that chance.

Ir's a very cool looking piece... but between the shipping cost and not knowing if it was just some glorified word processor component I didn't go very high.
 
I wonder if it was purchased by a keyboard hacker hoping to find a treasure. Still, if you were making your own custom system and needed only a keyboard and a monitor, it might make sense.
 
Little more than a monitor and a keyboard. No smarts that I can see. The edge connector card seems to be the interface to the keyboard.

I'm guessing it was part of a multi-station key-tape system, and not a word processor
given that it has an EBCDIC keypunch keyboard, and the control keys on top look like they would be appropriate for a keypunch
 
Exactly what I was thinking.

Oh don't say that! I was really tempted to take it, even if it could never be used for anything, as it's a really out there looking design. But I just couldn't justify $300+ for it. One of my rare acts of fiscal discipline. Hopefully it has gone to a good home.
 
I thought maybe snuci got it. I hope so. Then we can find out all about it.

Edit: Noooo! It was the dreaded b***a that got it - #1 enemy of keyboard collectors and vintage computer enthusiasts alike. We'll never see it again.
 
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I thought maybe snuci got it. I hope so. Then we can find out all about it.

Edit: Noooo! It was the dreaded b***a that got it - #1 enemy of keyboard collectors and vintage computer enthusiasts alike. We'll never see it again.

Who is b****a? Collector? Flipper?
 
He is an unknown buyer who seems to have endless money to vacuum up all the interesting old keyboards and terminals. He always snipes in the last second. I've lost at least 20 auctions to him. He's like the planet-eating space monster in Star Trek. Everything just disappears.
 
He is an unknown buyer who seems to have endless money to vacuum up all the interesting old keyboards and terminals. He always snipes in the last second. I've lost at least 20 auctions to him. He's like the planet-eating space monster in Star Trek. Everything just disappears.
Then we need to setup an anti-matter/matter reaction in a shell of an old keyboard and make sure he buys it. If we time it just right, it will go critical just as he opens the box. Hopefully there won't be to much collateral damage like a rip in the space-time continuum.;)

P.S.
Anyone have any fresh dilithium crystals?
 
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OK, Spock. You and Scotty rig up the keyboard. We haven't a second to lose!

(..dramatic Star Trek music increases in volume...)
 
Maybe it's not even a he.. maybe it's an organization of some kind. That kind of feedback for a private buyer takes some time or serious money to create. I sometimes wonder if I'm competing with museums in these things. Some of those would definitely have the budget.

I wish the postage hadn't put me off. I might have been more aggressive. Although, if this guy or group has got the big pockets he/they might be nuking every bid. And anyway, space at my place is running tight... I'm focussed on rare and unusual stuff you can actually use, that doesn't take up a half acre while it sits doing nothing for the next 30 years.
 
Something from Hazeltine, maybe? The case colors are right, and Ball Bros. provided the video/high voltage circuit board for Hazeltine terminals. I always thought it was funny to see Ball Bros. name on circuit boards, my mom did a lot of canned fruit from our yard and I thought Ball Bros only made jars :)
 
Something from Hazeltine, maybe? The case colors are right, and Ball Bros. provided the video/high voltage circuit board for Hazeltine terminals. I always thought it was funny to see Ball Bros. name on circuit boards, my mom did a lot of canned fruit from our yard and I thought Ball Bros only made jars :)

It was a Christmastime custom for employees of Ball Aerospace to be given canning jars. Ball no longer makes canning jars; that was spun off in the 1990s and are now sold by Newell Corp., the same outfit that owns Rubbermaid, Krazy Glue and a bewildering variety of products. Ball is the largest manufacturer of aluminum beverage cans in the US; Ball Aerospace is still quite active. I don't know what employees receive nowadays--perhaps a six-pack of Bud Lite.
 
Okay, I solved two mysteries (sort of) tonight. First, the mysterious b*****a. It was really starting to eat at me trying to figure out who/what they were. I remembered when I won my Mark-8 boards, I immediately got an email from Grant Stockly asking about them. I wondered how he'd knew it was me and he mentioned using some kind of service that can unmask some bidders. So I went to said service, and now I know who they are. Well, I know their ebay ID. I know they sell t-shirts. I don't *think* they're a museum, but hard to tell. I'm not gonna bother them - I just wanted to know who/what I was competing with, that's all.

Second mystery - and the more important one. Al Kossow had the right idea on this mystery terminal. I now know what it is, sort of. As some of you may be aware, the seller 'reposted' the terminal shortly after it sold to b*****a. I assumed b*****a hadn't followed through, but I was wrong. This was a different terminal, and I had an inkling it was because it had a badge on the bottom right I didn't remember seeing on the first one. Anyway, turns out it's a second terminal this antiques store seller got. Turns out also that the badge was significant, and that this terminal has a tie-in (sort of) to the MCM/70 and later machines, because the guy who helped design it was Mers Kutt, who later brought the MCM/70 into being. And yeah, I bought it. I don't have really any Canadian gear in here. Bout time I did.

That 'TV-9C' on the model tag I thought was a clue was just for the CRT, which Ball Brothers did supply. But it's not a 'Ball Brother's terminal, they just supplied that component of it. There's a few other CRTs by them on ebay. I don't know but I *think* based on date, that it's the Key-Data 100. There is an ad here for the Series 2 machine, which looks similar... But that ad is dated 1978, and I can see a date code of 1974 on the power supply. Could be an inbetween unit. I'm hoping the serial numbers and such I can't make out from the pic will tell the story. I'm thinking this is the 100. Given it's 1974 it's after Kutt left, but still. Kinda cool to have a piece of Canadian know how, along with the usual story of how our ever useless federal government managed to help screw it all up. Here's hoping another arm of our federal government, also a perennial screw up, Canada Post, doesn't lose it, amidst the strike that's going on. I'm going to try to see if he'll ship it a different way.

I wonder if it'd be possible to use one of those PIDP/8s they have to make it operate. I don't know if it had some kind of special module between it and the PDP-8 or if it communicated directly somehow. You'd also have to find the software I guess. Might be possible given there were 30,000 of them in use at some very large companies.

Anyway, here's the story, taken from Inventing the PC: The MCM/70 Story:

"Historically, punch cards were among the oldest and most prevalent computer input media. Supplying an extended line of hardware to punch, read, and process cards was also a lucrative business for companies such as IBM. However, already, at Honeywell, Kutt had gained a clear idea of how to make computer data entry easier without the need of punch cards. One could simply provide programmers or data entry personnel with a computer terminal consisting primarily of a keyboard and a display. The keyed information could be stored on an external memory medium such as a magnetic drum or magnetic tape. The host computer would then pick up the stored information directly from that external memory, rather than wait for the deck of sorted cards to be punched and fed into it. There were significant advantages to such an arrangement. Before processing, the data keyed in by an operator could be verified, updated, deleted or even sorted and combined with other data already saved in the system's memory. There would be no need fo rexpensive punch card equipment such as card readers, punchers, or sorters. In addition, multiple terminals could be connected to a single host computer. But, as Kutt used to say, "You have to look at the practical side of the development. You cannot build something just because it is neat." He had to wait until the mid-1960s for the Key-Edit system, as he called his first invention, to become an economically sound concept. Then magnetic drums and tapes came down in cost, and Digital Equipment Corporation introduced the PDP-8 mini-computer - a small computer that Kutt needed to control all the operations of the terminals of his data entry system. "My arrangement [with Queen's University] was that I'd be able to set up my own company in parallel," said Kutt, "without jeopardizing my own position in the department. I had already developed the idea of a key-to-drum product and wanted to bring such a product to the marketplace." While at Queen's, Kutt teamed up with Donald Pamenter to form his first company, Consolidated Comptuer Services Ltd (incorporated in 1969 under the name of Consolidated Computer Inc.) to develop and manufacture a novel, fully computerized data entry system named the Key-Edit 100. Multiple data entry terminals of the Key-Edit (called key-stations) were connected to a shared PDP-8 minicomputer which controlled all the data entry and editing functions of the Key-Edit. Almost overnight, CCI became one of the most innovative and internationally recognized Canadian high tech companies of that period. "The biggest thing was to get a big sale," recollected Kutt, "and I used to camp out down at General Motors in Detroit and worked at getting them. We got them and ... from there, the Key-Edit really took off and people knew it around the world." By the end of the 1970s, CCI had installed over 30,000 keystations of its Key-Edit system in twenty-eight countries. Other companies that sound followed CCI with similar key-edit products sold or even rented even more systems. The era of punch cards was over, just like that. The Canadian press called CCI 'Canada's Computer Company' and the symbol of Canada's challenge for a share of the worldwide computer market." By June of 1969, Kutt was out of Queen's and devoting all his time to CCI. That year he was also elected president of the Canadian Information Processing Society. But the satisfaction of having a breakthrough product and getting a taste of managing a successful company did not last long. In the fall of 1971, he was squeezed out of CCI for reasons best explained in a separate publication. (One would have to deal with a vast range of issues, from raising and managing large capital to the incompetence of some top bureaucrats in the Canadian federal government, to name just two.) That year, he was also struck by personal tragedy. A few months before his departure from CCI, he lost his wife to cancer."
 
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That is awesome. Nice detective work. I just finished reading "Inventing the PC: The MCM/70 Story" too, as I was waiting for my MCM/70 to arrive. PM me who b****a is. I am curious if I know them. He/she has beat me out on a keyboard or two as well.
 
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