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Shipping CRT monitors from Germany

VileR

VileR

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
656
Location
Israel
I've been offered a certain monitor (IBM 5153) by a friend in Germany, and we're trying to work out how to get it from him to me. I haven't had much luck with these things so far (read: two shipped CRTs gone to the Great Parts Bucket in the Sky this year), but maybe third time's the charm.

The thing is, he hasn't shipped stuff out of there before. From what he's seeing, it can be troublesome, so perhaps someone here could help clear up a few things.

  1. Regulations/insurance: For various logistical reasons, our best option is probably DHL. But like other carriers in DE, they seem to have pretty stringent requirements for equipment like this. Apparently monitors (or maybe just CRTs?) must be shipped in their "original packaging"... otherwise, no insurance.
    Also, my friend reports that they're difficult to deal with (rephrased - his wording was more colorful), and that any deviation from regulations can result in flat-out refusal of service; so we don't want to give them any excuses.

    Anyone here from Germany who's had experience with that? Is the "original packaging" thing actually enforced? Have you been able to ship and insure vintage computer items without it?
    Any other "gotchas" that we should be aware of, in terms of regulations?

  2. Packing: I think we have a pretty good handle on how to box it decently. But when it comes to packing *materials* - is there anything specific that's available in Germany, and recommended for this type of stuff? Instapak? Something similar?

  3. Pallet/container shipping: this may also be an option (AFAIK that is something like "spedition" in German). More expensive maybe, and takes longer, but I've seen this recommended as the best method for shipping CRTs. The box can be made bigger and bulkier, too.

    However, we don't even know where to start with this one. Do these companies normally work with shipping agents who can "palletize" the box on site? Do any of them have an optional door-to-door type of service?
    If anyone has anything good to say about this method, and can recommend a specific company, that could help.
Any tips would be appreciated.
 
Not for the cost of S&H only. ;) And Germany's not that far anyway... last two attempts were from the US.
Funnily enough 5153s seems to have been very rare here... the only IBM monitors I recall seeing often were 5151s, and later 8512s and similar. Color monitors weren't big here pre-VGA, and those that did sell were almost all third party.
 
Well about 3" of soft foam slabs, preferably multiple layers of skinny foam, should be fine. If the handlers are intent on destroying it, there's not much you can do (kevlar maybe?). I go dumpster diving for the stuff! Or you can make friends with someone who works at a place that ships ceramics, dishware. Pier 1 Imports is one such chain in the US. Can't speak for Germany. If he's in a very rural area it could be challenging to find cast offs. In a large town/city stuff should be plentiful. That's if you're looking to save money. I always try, especially when it be mine. When I sell on ebay I do my best to keep shipping costs down also.
 
Shipping a monitor with DHL is safe, as long as you follow some rules:

1. the space between each wall of the shipping box and the monitor must be at least 5cm
2. use layers of thick foam to fill the space - do NOT use bubble pack or even worse, crumpled-up paper (as so many people do)
3. put the monitor in with the front of the tube facing down (most important thing of all, really!)
4. BUY one of their "Glass! Handle with care!" stickers to put on the box - never ever write that on the box by hand

I would highly advice against using a spedition. This is for large stuff and is handled very rough during transport. Also, you are not allowed to put a tiny object in the center of a pallet, so you would need a very large box with shitload of packing material.
 
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A note on insurance/regulation: just pack it well, as they simply won't pay for damage in most cases. See, you can have three ways of damage:

1. visible damage happens to the shipping box during transport
2. the package gets lost during transport (note: during, not after!)
3. no visible damage on the shipping box, but shipped item is damaged

In 1 & 2, DHL at least will pay for the damage with little to no discussion. Had both cases a few times and always got loss adjustment. In case 3, however, they won't pay. The reason is simple: if there's no visible damage on the shipping box, they tell you that you did not pack it well enough. Of course, if you packed it well enough, no damage would have happened - so in either case there's no reason for them to pay for any loss/damage. And I think that's really the only way for them to handle it. Otherwise, people who accidentally dropped something valuable could just send it to a friend and then claim loss adjustment.
 
Thanks for the info, Timo. Yes, the policy for damages sounds reasonable, although it wouldn't surprise me if visible damage actually happens rather often - the last dead CRT I received (not via DHL) had a hole punched right through the heavy cardboard box during shipment. In fact it looked like somebody had attempted to skewer the package, or dropped it onto a big nasty metal spike from a height (shades of Prince of Persia)...

If something like that happens, what concerns me is that they could still open the rulebook and go "Oh, you didn't use original packaging? Tough luck".
 
Using the "original packaging" is just a recommendation. They clearly say:

Fernseher oder Monitore sollten in ihre Originalverpackung komplett mit intakter Schaumstoffpolsterung gegeben werden.
Click to expand...

Which translates to: "TV sets and monitors should be put in their original packaging complete with its intact foam padding."

It's not a must.
 
Considering the cost to ship is something you are fully aware of, in a situation like this where there's a few thousand kilometers to travel I would be investing in Instapak bags for perfect-fit foam packaging, plus a "green" shockwatch on the exterior of the box. You should be able to purchase both per-unit at most shipping/mailing depots or office supply stores.
 
the thing that I like about the skinny foam I often find is it's springy. If you have enough layers, a monitor should be able to survive a 4-5 foot drop. If they're intent on destroying something, nothing will save it. Bubble wrap is also a good choice. A monitor surrounded by 3-4" of bubble wrap should survive most common shocks.
 
The outer box should be strong to prevent deformation if items are stacked on it, or to prevent the wall being punctured.

Inside the packing should be firm but compressible. If you imagine the box dropped and stopping on concrete, the task is to reduce the deceleration (rate of change of velocity with time) so it is very important to allow the monitor to be able to move some distance (the greater the better) so the deceleration is reduced. This is why a big box with a lot of soft packing around the monitor is better than a small one and why double boxing can help.The CRT's inside these vintage IBM monitors are quite capable of tearing themselves off the plastic mounts, or the mass of the yoke shear off their necks, with enough deceleration.

During wartime, CRT's (the actual bare tubes) were placed in a canvas bag with 8 springs attached to it. The springs were connected to the inside corners of a wooden crate. The springs also had a plastic coating over them(a tube) for resonance damping. When the crate got dropped and hit the ground, the CRT could move more slowly and the energy get dissipated by the damping. Modern packing materials help in this way.

Another thing: "Every stage in the shipping is equivalent to throwing the item down one flight of stairs"

So always select the shipping system that has the minimum number of "off load-on load" shipping steps to get to your location.
 
tipc said:
Bubble wrap is also a good choice. A monitor surrounded by 3-4" of bubble wrap should survive most common shocks.
Click to expand...
No, it's not. Bubble wrap has too many disadvantages in this case: The bubbles can pop if they have to absorb a larger force and then their protective function is gone. Also, even the slightest damage to the shipping box can expose part of the bubble wrap and make bubbles pop. This is especially an issue with bubble wrap that has combined air chambers for whole rows of bubbles.

Moreover, a tight wrapping in bubble wrap is not as soft as foam, which means more force will hit the actual item when dropped.
 
The first CRT that was DOA when I got it (from an eBay seller) was protected mainly by bubble wrap, including the version with the larger pockets, basically a nylon air-bag type of thing. Didn't turn out to be a good idea.

And yes, what happened in both cases was pretty much what Hugo wrote: the tubes got dislodged from their mountings and moved around inside the casings, and the necks were broken off. I suppose that's another reason to ship those CRTs face-down, provided that 'down' stays 'down' during the voyage.
Attaching springs sounds like the perfect solution - won't happen, but it's an interesting model to imitate in terms of physical properties. :)

Cheers for the tips, they're all appreciated.
 
Recent success story:

m24_monitor_box_1.jpg

m24_monitor_packing.jpg

Original box and packing. The packing was shedding due to age (1984) but was still very pliable and "bouncy" and the monitor arrived without a scratch. Box was 22" square for a monitor that was 13" square. Was shipped domestically UPS.

The second 5153 was shipped to Viler from myself, and although the packing was (we thought) impeccable, it arrived smashed. The thing about shipping face down to protect the tube is good advice, but there is no guarantee the box will be oriented properly during shipping even with "THIS END UP" stickers.

I very much like the idea of "Glass! Handle with care!" stickers to put on the box. I think that might have worked better than the generic FRAGILE stickers I put on the box the first time.
 
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VileR said:
The first CRT that was DOA when I got it (from an eBay seller) was protected mainly by bubble wrap, including the version with the larger pockets, basically a nylon air-bag type of thing. Didn't turn out to be a good idea.

And yes, what happened in both cases was pretty much what Hugo wrote: the tubes got dislodged from their mountings and moved around inside the casings, and the necks were broken off. I suppose that's another reason to ship those CRTs face-down, provided that 'down' stays 'down' during the voyage.
Attaching springs sounds like the perfect solution - won't happen, but it's an interesting model to imitate in terms of physical properties. :)

Cheers for the tips, they're all appreciated.
Click to expand...
Given the failure modes you have experienced, is it possible to have the mountings checked/reinforced before shipping? Also (and this may sound like lunacy, by there is a method to my madness) is it possible to use an expanding foam material inside the monitor that would surround the insides completely, including the tube, so nothing can move inside, and then the foam can be removed once the monitor reaches its destination?
 
I like the idea of the hard-ish expanding foam. For the most part, you simply need the monitor to not rattle about in the box, so something like crumpled paper would crush to nothing and the monitor would shift. It's fate is random though, if the carrier flips the box sideways and slams it, the weight of the CRT will probably snap it's mounts.
 
Paralel said:
is it possible to use an expanding foam material inside the monitor that would surround the insides completely, including the tube, so nothing can move inside, and then the foam can be removed once the monitor reaches its destination?
Click to expand...

Since the expansion, or removal, of said foam would likely cause damage, it would be better to simply disassemble the monitor into 1. shell, 2. tube, and 3. board, and pack/ship each of those appropriately. (The tube would definitely get the instapak treatment. No idea how to ship an empty plastic shell though.)
 
I've also had it advised that the box should have a carrying handle, even if it's a makeshift one. Even when they don't actively use it, perhaps it has the effect of getting them to keep the right end up. *shrugs* Makes sense, or too far-fetched?

Trixter: congrats on the pristine Olivetti :) Guess there *is* a point to recommending original packaging when that's available.
 
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