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Hi, I am Dalmas.

D

Dalmas

New Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Messages
4
Now residing in Sweden, after 40 very interesting years, in Silicon Valley,1961-2003.

I own an Intel SIM4-03, MCS-4 Development board, and I have an MCS-4 manual with schematics. The 4004 and the 4002s have been tested, and I am going to connect power and Test and Reset switches to the board. I own several 1702As, but I don't have a programmer.
What is the best way for me, to test as much as possible of the board using my oscilloscope? The only thing I can do now, is to use an erased 1702A in socket #1.
Thanks!
 
Welcome to VCFED...

Nice little card you have there.

Let me get back to you presently about how much of a SIM4-03 you can test without a programmed EPROM...

There are old designs on the internet for a ‘hand cranked’ 1702A programmer if you can construct simple electronics. I will provide you a link to a couple later for you to look at.

Alternatively, someone with a 1702A programmer would be able to burn an image into a blank EPROM for you if you provide them with the blank device(s) and cover their costs - including a little left over for a beer or two :)!

Dave
 
I have been able to find the schematics for the SIM4-01 and -02 but not the -03.

If they don't exist online, could I ask that you preserve them and see if you can get a copy to Al over at bitsavers?

You will need a monitor EPROM of some description.

Dwight and myself managed to get a beautiful assembler from Tom Pittman running once again. You can find images of these over at https://github.com/prog4004/I4004-projects/tree/master/EPROM4004.

I will get you the information regarding the 1702A EPROM programmer tonight.

Dave
 
Here is a picture of a SIM4-03:
http://www.bitsavers.org/components/intel/MCS4/SIM4-03_Brochure_Apr73.pdf
It is suppose to be pin compatible with a SIM4-02. It even has the same attachments.
Dalmas, do you have the MCB4-20 as shown in the page I posted?
I have a friend in Norway ( just over the hill ). I've been holding a MP7-03 for him for more than a year (s?). Maybe he'd be willing to part with it or loan it out. I have a chassis that someone used with the MP7-03 to program 1702A's. With a connector and some wiring, I suspect it could take the SIM4-03 you have. I'm not sure of the width that is required for the SIM4-03 but I think there is enough room.
He has a SIM4-01 that I repaired for him. He'd asked if I'd add another socket so he could program 1702A but I told him that I have too many projects that I'd like to complete before I kick the bucket.
You might be able to make a deal with him if you modify the chassis to take both a SIM4-01 and a SIM4-02/03. He might consider loaning you the MP7-03 to program some parts.
The chassis is heavy as it has a transformer on it to produce the 60V plus to run the programmer. The chassis would be a little heavy to ship but there is always finding someone doing an air ride that might take it. I'm in California so it is a little difficult. Of course. I could rip the transformer out to lighten it and you could provide a power supply there ( I'm sure that would be cheaper than shipping it ).
I'll try and contact him if you is interested.
Dwight
 
Hi Dalmas, very cool board and interesting years in Silicon Valley. You seen a lot, hope you can share your memories. I bet you have some interesting stories.
 
Sim4-03

Sim4-03

daver2 said:
Welcome to VCFED...

Nice little card you have there.

Let me get back to you presently about how much of a SIM4-03 you can test without a programmed EPROM...

There are old designs on the internet for a ‘hand cranked’ 1702A programmer if you can construct simple electronics. I will provide you a link to a couple later for you to look at.

Alternatively, someone with a 1702A programmer would be able to burn an image into a blank EPROM for you if you provide them with the blank device(s) and cover their costs - including a little left over for a beer or two :)!

Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, at 80+ I am a little slow at replying. If someone at a reasonable cost, would burn a short test program into a blank EPROM for me, I would try to supply the EPROM. I also don't have the code for a short test program.
The board has 1 ea. 4002-1 and 1 ea. 4002-2 for RAM and I/O. If the program looped on itself and included a WRITE and a READ to the 4002s and also output a 100 usec, or so, square wave on 1 of the ouputs of both 4002s, I could check with my oscope. Thanks!
 
Dwight Elvey said:
Here is a picture of a SIM4-03:
http://www.bitsavers.org/components/intel/MCS4/SIM4-03_Brochure_Apr73.pdf
It is suppose to be pin compatible with a SIM4-02. It even has the same attachments.
Dalmas, do you have the MCB4-20 as shown in the page I posted?
I have a friend in Norway ( just over the hill ). I've been holding a MP7-03 for him for more than a year (s?). Maybe he'd be willing to part with it or loan it out. I have a chassis that someone used with the MP7-03 to program 1702A's. With a connector and some wiring, I suspect it could take the SIM4-03 you have. I'm not sure of the width that is required for the SIM4-03 but I think there is enough room.
He has a SIM4-01 that I repaired for him. He'd asked if I'd add another socket so he could program 1702A but I told him that I have too many projects that I'd like to complete before I kick the bucket.
You might be able to make a deal with him if you modify the chassis to take both a SIM4-01 and a SIM4-02/03. He might consider loaning you the MP7-03 to program some parts.
The chassis is heavy as it has a transformer on it to produce the 60V plus to run the programmer. The chassis would be a little heavy to ship but there is always finding someone doing an air ride that might take it. I'm in California so it is a little difficult. Of course. I could rip the transformer out to lighten it and you could provide a power supply there ( I'm sure that would be cheaper than shipping it ).
I'll try and contact him if you is interested.
Dwight
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, and offer. All the replies on the forum are very much appreciated. At 80+ I am slow to reply.
I don't have the MCB4-20.
If someone at a reasonable cost, would burn a short test program into a blank EPROM for me, I would try to supply the EPROM. I also don't have the code for a short test program, and I am NOT a good programmer.
The board has 1 ea. 4002-1 and 1 ea. 4002-2 for RAM and I/O. If the program looped on itself and included a WRITE and a READ to the 4002s and also output a 100 usec, or so, square wave on 1 of the outputs of both 4002s, I could check with my o-scope.
I'll try to scan the SIM4-03 schematic.
Thanks!
 
Dalmas

Dalmas

Hi,

Will try to scan the SIM4-03 schematic.
Where do I send it?

/Dalmas
 
Dalmas said:
Hi,

Will try to scan the SIM4-03 schematic.
Where do I send it?

/Dalmas
Click to expand...

If it is a good quality scan, Al Kossow at aek@bitsavers.org might want to put it on the bitsavers page. Do ask him first before sending a pdf.
I thought I might add that you will probably need to invert the data in the ROM files as the 4004 is a PMOS device. The data files I have are true data. It really depends on how the ROMs are wired to the 4004. In my SIM4-01 the ROM data is not inverted between the 1702A and the 4004. This means the data needs to be inverted before programming the 1702As, to match up with PMOS levels. I believe the SIM4-02 does the same but the SIM4-03 looks to use the 4009/4008 to do I/O. If these are also used to interface the EPROMs, then, I believe, the data should be true for the 1702As and not inverted.
On my maneuver board, I use the 4289 to do both I/O and EPROMs. This meant that I needed to use true data. I believe that is the same for 4009/4008 when interfacing to EPROMs but I'm not absolutely sure about that. On my MCB4-10 it has switches to select true or inverted data, to the programmer. This controls XORs on the MP7-03 that can selectively invert the data being programmed into the EPROM or read from the EPROM, in the programmer.
I know this is confusing. I always did two sets of EPROMs to figure which was right.
I can program EPROMs but shipping may be an issue. I can supply 1702As as well but these are not collector valued EPROMs. These are later EPROMs than the original ones, and not worth a hole lot ( none are gold leads with white ceramic, they are just 1702As ). Send me a PM and we can talk about such stuff.
Dwight
 
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