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Forum etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


"PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
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The New Forums

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    Tried logging in on my Dell Inspiron 8000 (running Windows 2000 and Kmeleon 74) and the login box comes up, but when I put my info in and hit “log in,” it just says “loading...” and nothing else happens. That’s quite a bummer actually, as the site otherwise seems to work fine on it. I really liked using these forums on that laptop. Perhaps there’s a workaround, though I have no clue what that would be. I’ll try clearing the cookies, but I don’t think that’ll work.

    With that said, I’m not mad at anyone over it and I’m open to suggestions for a possible fix. If I could just log in, I’d be set.
    Compaq - It simply works better

    Comment


      When will the "Welcome Back" splash go away? I've been back and back and back and yet I'm still seeing:

      "1 of 2 >
      Welcome back!

      If you're seeing this then welcome to the NEW Vintage Computer Forums.

      The forums have been updated to the latest version of the software which means new features and some changes to old ones.

      Please don't be alarmed. Change is good!"



      The above seems to imply after seeing this once it will not display again.

      OBTW, right up there with: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help!" & "New and improved" is the phrase: "Change is good". I'm more of a fan of: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!". But just like a new version of Windows, we'll adapt since there's not much choice.




      Crazy old guy with a basement full of Pentium 1 laptops and parts

      Comment


        Originally posted by DeltaDon View Post
        [B]When will the "Welcome Back" splash go away? I've been back and back and back and yet I'm still seeing
        Use uBlock Origin's "block element" feature to kill it. It can also be used to kill other cancer like the cancerous social media buttons.

        Comment


          Good thinking. But onto killing the whole sight "upgrade". Best done with a mallet maybe?

          Comment



            Originally posted by SomeGuy View Post
            Sigh. If we could just get rid of those "share" and "tweet" buttons, and that "like" icon, then at least this forum might look like a place for intelligent grown-up discussion again. These SHOULD be configurable.(Yea, I can block them with a custom CSS or whatever that previous poster was using, but I care about how it looks to the world.)


            Originally posted by Pepinno View Post
            Lastly, cancel the Facebook and Twitter buttons. PLEASE.

            Yes what they said.. Immediately please.


            Also has anyone else seen this yet? I was hitting the quotes button to quote these two posts and once I hit the button one time, it would not let me clear or quote someone else. I had to copy and paste into notepad and refresh the page to get th equotes.

            Comment


              Originally posted by tipc View Post
              It's truly astounding how badly they ****ed this forum up. shock and awe.
              The server change and software upgrade was necessary. vBulletin 4.x has bugs and security problems that will never be fixed.

              I'm at the point where I'm going to ask you to stop complaining and insulting the volunteers who make this happen, and who also happen to be paying the bills for it. If you can't do that then it's time for you to take your complaining and insults somewhere else.

              Comment


                My intent was not to insult volunteers, plural. I do have a problem with certain personnel who to this day abuse their "authority" and go stormtrooper on anyone who dares criticize their employer, who henceforth will be referred to as Goolog. Because that's what they hope to create, a digital gulag.

                Whoever bears the blame, I've never seen such a drastic change for the bad. Nothing works as it used to. I'm not going to struggle to participate. And hence I will direct my interests and time elsewhere.

                Why in blazes start a thread like this anyway, if you have no intention or opportunity to change anything??? Just so you can tell people "it's our decision not yours"?

                Where the hell is Stone's forum LOL. Anything would be an improvement over this. I'm out.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by tipc View Post
                  My intent was not to insult volunteers, plural. I do have a problem with certain personnel who to this day abuse their "authority" and go stormtrooper on anyone who dares criticize their employer, who henceforth will be referred to as Goolog. Because that's what they hope to create, a digital gulag.
                  +1 to this

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by tipc View Post
                    My intent was not to insult volunteers, plural. I do have a problem with certain personnel who to this day abuse their "authority" and go stormtrooper on anyone who dares criticize their employer, who henceforth will be referred to as Goolog. Because that's what they hope to create, a digital gulag.

                    Whoever bears the blame, I've never seen such a drastic change for the bad. Nothing works as it used to. I'm not going to struggle to participate. And hence I will direct my interests and time elsewhere.

                    Why in blazes start a thread like this anyway, if you have no intention or opportunity to change anything??? Just so you can tell people "it's our decision not yours"?

                    Where the hell is Stone's forum LOL. Anything would be an improvement over this. I'm out.
                    This thread is about the forum upgrades, which really have not been universally well received, but honestly it needed to be done. We've heard the multitudes of complaints. We've also heard quite a few insults, and once again, if you don't like what we are offering then please leave. We try to respond to constructive criticism but with that last post you are just insulting people. (Again.)

                    We don't allow anybody to malign any other entity here, large or small. People who rant against Google, Microsoft, eBay, etc. all get the same warning - it reflects poorly on the rest of us. If my style of moderation is what you call being a stormtrooper, then you have a lot to learn about what real stormtroopers do.

                    It's been fun having you. Goodbye.

                    Comment


                      I've "liberated" those two users from the horrors of this forum. I couldn't take their suffering anymore. (Read: They were banned because enough is enough.)

                      We take constructive criticism. We take criticism about things we can't fix immediately because we take notes and we may be able to fix them later. But I and the other volunteers are not here to take abuse from randos on the Internet hiding behind aliases.

                      Please participate respectfully, or don't participate. The two liberated users can write an email to somebody on the VCFed board of directors if they want to communicate. (I would suggest erik@vcfed.org, the originator of this thread.)

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by tipc View Post
                        My intent was not to insult volunteers, plural. I do have a problem with certain personnel who to this day abuse their "authority" and go stormtrooper on anyone who dares criticize their employer, who henceforth will be referred to as Goolog. Because that's what they hope to create, a digital gulag.
                        No idea what this is referring too. Guess I haven't been here long enough.

                        Whoever bears the blame, I've never seen such a drastic change for the bad. Nothing works as it used to.
                        Well, MY workflow has not changed in any dramatic way. I can't speak for others. The singular change that "impacts" me, and its minor at best, is not having a ready demarcation of posts from when I last visited.

                        My workflow is visit the site, click on new topics, Alt-Click the "latest post" message on each thread I'm interested in, visit each time it due course, and move on.

                        At the start it took me several visits to find the log in facility at the top of the page. It was curious how I poked around and could not force it to want to log me in (since I could readily find the login functionality at the beginning). Now I'm logged in, I guess I clicked "remember me" and I stay logged in, so that hurdle is past. I agree with others in that I don't really care for the login system.

                        I can't seem to multi-quote, as in, select Quote on multiple messages so I can reply to several in a single message. This seems to be to be a bug. Maybe its the forum software, maybe it's that I'm on Desktop Safari. Can't say, not that important to me to hunt it down.

                        But at the moment, for me, multi-quoting doesn't work. This is not a crisis for me. But it's an issue enough to let the ops know that its happening, maybe in time it can be looked in to.

                        Why in blazes start a thread like this anyway, if you have no intention or opportunity to change anything??? Just so you can tell people "it's our decision not yours"?
                        To gather things that they may well be able to do something about. To collect reports that perhaps they can go to the VB site and look for solutions.

                        I don't know if the Social Media buttons are an "out of the box" function of VB, or an option that they selected. They may well want social media buttons everywhere vs "we don't know how to turn them off". That kind of transparency would be useful.

                        It would be nice in a few weeks to see a "state of the forum" post that addresses peoples concerns and answers them. I don't think cocooning and avoiding is much of a solution.

                        But this is a place to gather those concerns.

                        HTTPS isn't going anywhere. That's a stark reality, and not negotiable.

                        But there's a difference between highlighting concerns and issues, and tossing out insults and outrage. Some say that the update is so egregious that they can't be civil. Which is of course nonsense. Anyone posting can take a beat and dial down the vitriol. This is not a "caught in the moment thing". There's a big button folks can CHOOSE to NOT PUSH after they re-read their post.

                        Comment


                          I'd like to request that this thread be closed, and a new thread meant for, and will only tolerate, bug reports. I submitted what I felt were reasonable -- and a few fairly serious -- bug reports, but I fear they were lost in the drama of this thread. I'd prefer they were given directed attention.

                          The wording of this thread left it open to opinions; I'd like one specifically for bug reports so that I know my voice is heard. I have no desire to participate in the forum after the upgrade due to some features that are simply not working that used to before. (These aren't "my wacko non-standard browser shows odd things" or "I can't login because I disable javascript for outdated reasons" complaints, but actual bugs that make the forum extremely difficult to use on a modern OS with a modern browser.)
                          Offering a bounty for:
                          - A working Sanyo MBC-775 or Logabax 1600
                          - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

                          Comment


                            Trixter,

                            Open a new thread for yours specific problems in the VCF Support area of the forum. ("https://www.vcfed.org/forum/forum/technical-support/vintage-computer-forum-support") A directed thread per issue makes more sense, and there are a few issued identified there already.



                            Comment


                              All ... Yes, in the interest of full disclosure, I work at Google. That is not a secret - go look me up on LinkedIn. I've also worked at IBM, Hitachi GST, and Western Digital. It's been a long and fruitful career. I post here (and everywhere) using my real name.

                              The forum policies remain the same. Be civil. Stay on topic. Don't do anything that puts VCFed in legal jeopardy, whether that be copyright violations or maligning others. You get the idea.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by mbbrutman View Post
                                I've "liberated" those two users from the horrors of this forum. I couldn't take their suffering anymore. (Read: They were banned because enough is enough.)

                                We take constructive criticism. We take criticism about things we can't fix immediately because we take notes and we may be able to fix them later. But I and the other volunteers are not here to take abuse from randos on the Internet hiding behind aliases.

                                Please participate respectfully, or don't participate. The two liberated users can write an email to somebody on the VCFed board of directors if they want to communicate. (I would suggest erik@vcfed.org, the originator of this thread.)
                                Well, you can ban me too as I happen to dis-agree with your views and do agree with those you banned. So as long as I agree with you all is well, But disagree and we see what
                                happens.

                                Comment

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