Announcement

Collapse

Forum etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


"PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
See more
See less

The New Forums

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by Pepinno View Post

    You should not do that in a public forum where participation via anonymous aliasing is not only allowed but customary. The playing field is not level and the fact that you are moderating this forum in your real persona capacity while the great majority of participants are here in an anonymous capacity leads to a clash in expected etiquette and to ruffled feathers and to summarily bans. That makes for a not pleasant environment. I'm not saying that is your fault (it isn't), but that is the way human nature works in general.

    I'm still waiting for a sign of acknowledgement about what is already an overwhelming opinion of this forum's users: cancel the Facebook and Twitter buttons. I respectfully demand an explanation of WHY that is not being done. I don't intend to remain in this forum if those buttons remain. By the way, I am not asking you to "liberate" me, thank you very much.
    Regarding nicks vs. names: I'm user number 23 here. I don't think the 22 people before me decided on what was customary. I was a user long before I was a moderator.

    Regarding forum upgrades: You (and many others) are addressing your ire at the wrong person. Respectfully, you can demand a piece of chocolate cake if you want in addition to the explanation. I am not involved in this forum upgrade; I've pitched in some things but in general the upgrade was handled by others. Your complaints are being read and at some point they may be addressed, but I don't have any insight into how or when - that is up to them.

    Comment


      Originally posted by VileR View Post
      Can't stop at that, unless you wanna settle for total anarchy. Full addresses and zip codes in the 'Location' field should also be mandatory. Plus a scan of your ID, driver's license, and links to your bank, police, employment and medical records (all to be made publicly visible, naturally). And at least enough real photos of yourself and your family for a minimal machine-learning setup to deep-fake a nasty video or two (this WILL be tested).

      We'll march bravely onwards. Privacy's dead, get with the times you luddites.
      I'm not quite sure what you are talking about here. Nobody is insisting in anything other than a handle or a nickname. People can use their real names if they choose to.

      Our move to HTTPS actually enhances privacy.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Chuck(G) View Post
        Please! Can someone repair the PM system? I'm getting a notification in my inbox with a single line of text from the original sent message, but when I go to my inbox, no content appears--essentially a blank message bearing the sender's name and nothing more.

        This is not good! Pretty formatting might really delight some folks, but when you can't even see what was written, it's useless.
        Chuck,

        Private messages are working for other people. If you are having a problem then some basic information about your browser and what you have already tried would be helpful. Also perhaps a screenshot of the problem.

        This is probably an issue specific to your choice of browser, extension, ad-blockers or whatever. Do the usual - try a "private browsing" window with extensions turned off, try an alternate browser, etc. The only real issue I know of is that older browers can't use the login box because of the god-forsaken Javascript.

        Also, I'd start a new thread under "Vintage Computer Forum Support" for your specific problem. This thread is basically useless because of all of the off topic ranting.

        Comment


          Originally posted by mbbrutman View Post
          Our move to HTTPS actually enhances privacy.
          This gets often repeated, but I never really see anyone saying how it enhances security. There are a two major ways it does this.

          Firstly it acts as a digital signature for the webserver/domain of the forums, no one else can forge the certificate, so as long as you know the URL is correct, and there are no cert errors, then you know for a fact you are in the right place and can confidently enter your username and password.

          The second way it keeps us all secure is that it encrypts the data between you and the site in flight, so no one can peek in and spy on your traffic. Don't care about this? Sure, I get that, but know also that your username and password is passed over to the site *EVERY* time you load a page or go to a new page on the site. The login cookie you have for the site does this. And if that was not encrypted, then anyone out there on the internet could capture the packets going into the server and it would be trivial for someone to automate the collection of usernames and passwords. And since quite a few people re-use usernames and passwords, this list could gain the perpetrator access to secondary sites (your banking password is different from the password here isn't it????). Now you can get into a massive debate about how likely this is to happen, and I would admit it is probably on the unlikely end of the scale, but it is super easy to implement SSL, why wouldn't you? Also, those cookies are encrypted when you use them with an SSL site, so your username and password is held pretty secure from end to end when using the site.

          If you really want to use this site without SSL, then just setup a proxy on your network that strips the SSL from it once it gets to your gateway, and then go nuts with your ancient browsers, but make damn sure you trust whatever is on your network to not be harvesting data and send it back to someone command and control server...

          IBM 5160 - 360k, 1.44Mb Floppies, NEC V20, 8087-3, 45MB MFM Hard Drive, Vega 7 Graphics, IBM 5154 Monitor running MS-DOS 5.00
          IBM PCJr Model 48360 640kb RAM, NEC V20,, jrIDE Side Cart, 360kb Floppy drives running MS-DOS 5.00
          Evergreen Am5x86-133 64Mb Ram, 8gb HDD, SB16 in a modified ATX case running IBM PC-DOS 7.10

          Comment


            Regarding privacy and security ...

            You missed another point too - it keeps ISPs and cell phone providers from examining your traffic and modifying their behavior based on that traffic. For example, if your cell phone provider is Verizon it keeps them from modifying http headers, downsampling images, or just in general looking for keywords. Your connections to the sites you visit should never be scanned by your ISP or cell phone provider.

            It has happened in the past: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/verizon-x-uidh

            Comment


              Originally posted by mbbrutman View Post
              I'm not quite sure what you are talking about here. Nobody is insisting in anything other than a handle or a nickname. People can use their real names if they choose to.

              Our move to HTTPS actually enhances privacy.
              Sure, I have no problems with the forum's privacy policy (nor with HTTPS for that matter, since I don't personally think that vintage browser support should be a top priority when maintaining a live site). The suggestion that "nicks should be banned" however was something else.
              int10h.org :: :: :: blog

              Comment


                Originally posted by lutiana View Post
                but it is super easy to implement SSL, why wouldn't you?
                As someone who has been implementing SSL since more than a decade ago, I tell you it is not super easy.

                I first had my SSL web site fail SSL because 1024 bit RSA keys were deprecated. Then, because MD5 hashes were deprecated. Then, because protocol SSL 2 was deprecated. Then, because protocol SSL 3 was deprecated. Then, because SHA-1 hashes were deprecated. Then, because protocol TLS 1.0 was deprecated. And, lastly, because having the name in CN was deprecated and it had to be also in the Subject Alternative Name "optional" field. What confidence do I have that SSL will not break my web site next month?, NONE.

                So no, SSL is NOT super easy. But it takes experience to know that it is fragile, ever changing, and a moving target. HTTP is super easy. HTTPS, not so much.

                Having said that, I do support going HTTPS, provided TLS 1.0 is kept around for compatibility purposes. If TLS 1.2 or higher is mandated, in a retro themed forum, it's going to suck big.

                Comment


                  PM's don't work for me reliably either. Half the time others can't see what I typed, and half the time I can't see their message.

                  No ad blockers installed.

                  Microsoft Edge (newest version based on Chromium).

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Pepinno View Post

                    As someone who has been implementing SSL since more than a decade ago, I tell you it is not super easy.

                    I first had my SSL web site fail SSL because 1024 bit RSA keys were deprecated. Then, because MD5 hashes were deprecated. Then, because protocol SSL 2 was deprecated. Then, because protocol SSL 3 was deprecated. Then, because SHA-1 hashes were deprecated. Then, because protocol TLS 1.0 was deprecated. And, lastly, because having the name in CN was deprecated and it had to be also in the Subject Alternative Name "optional" field. What confidence do I have that SSL will not break my web site next month?, NONE.

                    So no, SSL is NOT super easy. But it takes experience to know that it is fragile, ever changing, and a moving target. HTTP is super easy. HTTPS, not so much.

                    Having said that, I do support going HTTPS, provided TLS 1.0 is kept around for compatibility purposes. If TLS 1.2 or higher is mandated, in a retro themed forum, it's going to suck big.
                    I have implemented my fair share of SSL and certificates, in more places than just websites, and have always found it to be pretty straight forward, with only minor issues coming up in more complex setups. The deprication of those techs has always been phased in, and any issued certs are usually fully trusted until they expire, so you should have every confidence that they will work until they expire, this has been my experience with certs over the last decade. Now if you are getting your certs from a fly by night, unreputable CA, or a CA that wantomly violates the agreed rules and what not (cough, cough, Symantec), well that's a different story entirely.

                    With regards to TLS 1.0, that should not be kept around at all. It is trivial to break into a TLS 1.0 stream, and this is why is has been nearly completely deprecated. You cannot even get a cert now that will support it, at least not from any reputable provider. Oh, and for the record, the current cert on this site only supports TLS 1.2 and 1.3, it does not support TLS1.0 or 1.1.

                    IBM 5160 - 360k, 1.44Mb Floppies, NEC V20, 8087-3, 45MB MFM Hard Drive, Vega 7 Graphics, IBM 5154 Monitor running MS-DOS 5.00
                    IBM PCJr Model 48360 640kb RAM, NEC V20,, jrIDE Side Cart, 360kb Floppy drives running MS-DOS 5.00
                    Evergreen Am5x86-133 64Mb Ram, 8gb HDD, SB16 in a modified ATX case running IBM PC-DOS 7.10

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by mbbrutman View Post
                      Regarding privacy and security ...

                      You missed another point too - it keeps ISPs and cell phone providers from examining your traffic and modifying their behavior based on that traffic. For example, if your cell phone provider is Verizon it keeps them from modifying http headers, downsampling images, or just in general looking for keywords. Your connections to the sites you visit should never be scanned by your ISP or cell phone provider.

                      It has happened in the past: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/verizon-x-uidh
                      Yes, that is a good one, though given that your ISP is harvesting meta data from you, they can infer what you are doing, even if they cannot see into the traffic. If you truly want to cut them out of the loop, then use a VPN. Most ISPs sell that meta data to the highest bidder too.

                      IBM 5160 - 360k, 1.44Mb Floppies, NEC V20, 8087-3, 45MB MFM Hard Drive, Vega 7 Graphics, IBM 5154 Monitor running MS-DOS 5.00
                      IBM PCJr Model 48360 640kb RAM, NEC V20,, jrIDE Side Cart, 360kb Floppy drives running MS-DOS 5.00
                      Evergreen Am5x86-133 64Mb Ram, 8gb HDD, SB16 in a modified ATX case running IBM PC-DOS 7.10

                      Comment


                        Am I imagining things, or have the social media buttons disappeared?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Robbbert View Post
                          Am I imagining things, or have the social media buttons disappeared?
                          Finally! Hurray!

                          Can we kill the "like" button now because that thing was made to cater to the lowest common denominator.
                          Last edited by VERAULT; April 19, 2021, 04:55 PM. Reason: because plant based meat replacements are not always terrible...

                          Comment


                            Don’t forget, those who want to use TLS/1.0, SSL v3, or previous, that you _can_ use a proxy, for your vintage system

                            I suggest browservice, and here is my Ansible-based deployer for it.

                            - Alex

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by DeltaDon View Post
                              When will the "Welcome Back" splash go away? I've been back and back and back and yet I'm still seeing:
                              It was scheduled to vanish next week, but I've taken it down early since it seems to have fulfilled its purpose.

                              The Vintage Computer and Gaming Marketplace
                              The Vintage Computer

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Roland Huisman View Post
                                Is there a way to set the colours in the forum? I would like to set it a bit darker somehow...
                                There should now be a drop list at the bottom of the page from which you can select different styles. Over time we'll be adding to those if people express interest.

                                The Vintage Computer and Gaming Marketplace
                                The Vintage Computer

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X