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Forum etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


"PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
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The New Forums

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    #91
    So the new design is bad but all must be new today.

    I don't like it - goodby.

    Comment


      #92
      Originally posted by VERAULT View Post
      "Change is good" You know I really dont like that saying. Because its blatantly false. For instance if a system is working, why change it? Do the changes make it better in very obvious real ways? If not its change for the sake of change, which has become the new normal. And change for the sake of change puts everything into a constant landslide of making things worse than they were previously. Hell this is true of most things, phones, the internet, cars, clothes,..... People....
      "Change is good" has become the moniker for the scam artists of the world to push newer and vastly inferior products and experiences, all the while knowing they're screwing you with their trashy fake smile. The cheeky cutesy little message at the top of the forum is just an offensive slap to the face.

      Everything about the new forums is offensive to the vintage computer community. Not only do you have the eye bleeding mobile theme, but forced SSL, craptons of useless javascript and trashy "social media" with bookface and a HORRIBLE UI. What used to be able to be done with one or two clicks now takes infuriating numbers of clicks around and some functionality doesn't even exist anymore. Like you can't hit a button to select a thread page, you have to press the dumb fast forward button a bunch of times and watch it snap back and forth. But that is only scratching the surface of how horrible the new theme is.

      Comment


        #93
        I've always hated the "Change is good" idea. Back when I had a job, they were always pushing that idea on us. If you didn't like it, you're a dinosaur.
        However, let's see how you deal with change when a loved one dies. Then you might learn that change isn't always good.

        Now, having said all that. I'm a member of various forums, and many have done the upgrade thing over the last few years, so I'm mostly used to the alterations that this change has brought about. I'm not that fussed over what's happened. For some reason I lost my avatar, and I don't even remember what it was. The copyright year at the bottom of the page says 2019, shouldn't it be 2021? You can use a line of javascript to automate it.

        The little blue button to the left of the thread name to get to new posts works now. On most forums clicking the date in the index takes you to the last post, but this one requires clicking the blue button just after the date. Not a problem though.

        I don't care for the facebook crap, but that can be mentally ignored. I don't have a smartphone, so I do not care about phone visibility. As for java in the background, don't care. It just has to work. I'd expect that a bunch of old browsers will no longer work on this forum though. Tough luck I guess.

        Really, the only problem will be if I need to edit a post and it gets stuck in some moderation queue. If that becomes a regular thing I might rethink my position here. If it has to be there, restrict it to new members (< 10 posts).

        Comment


          #94
          The avatar problem has been sorted. In fact, in my profile the avatar was showing. But not in a thread. The problem is because the option to select an internal avatar has gone missing. Mine was Pokemon/376.gif

          So, I saved the avatar from my profile, and reloaded it to my main avatar, and now it shows. The admins might want to look into this issue, and restore other people's lost avatars.

          Comment


            #95
            Where's the attachment manager gone, by the way? I used that often to find pictures I uploaded in the past.

            It seems - while this is an "upgrade" - we lost tons of functions...

            Comment


              #96
              After a couple decades of working In Technology the last place I want to feel the forced pressure of learning a new system is when I am at home on my own time. This feels like work. Like a new update has changed all aspects of a program so features and usage which had become second nature suddenly become daunting. Like being a proficient typist then forgetting how to type and going back to hen pecking. I worked in Healthcare, imagine a working busy clinic being brought to its Knees under heavy patient traffic just because the new version is so completely different than the last.

              Remember the DOS Win3.X and Win9x days when software didnt have updates (except virus scanners of course) Who knew those were the glory days.... Was that what you were singing about Bruce?

              Comment


                #97
                Just something to keep in mind, for those who find the new forum design to be off-putting:

                It is very important, for reasons of security and supportability, to keep the forum software up-to-date.

                We will do all that we can to make the forum easy to use, and I definitely share some of the usability concerns. Please give us some time to work out the issues, and please do offer constructive suggestions for how we can make the forum work better for you.

                Also, you may notice that the long-standing SSL issues have been fixed, and that the performance of the site is much improved, after the upgrade.

                Thanks!
                - Alex

                Comment


                  #98
                  Originally posted by ajacocks View Post
                  It is very important, for reasons of security and supportability, to keep the forum software up-to-date.
                  Why? I mean honestly who really gives a crap if a login for a vintage computer forum gets compromised? Is someone going to bother to impersonate me here to tarnish my reputation by claiming to be a ZX spectrum enthusiast?

                  Comment


                    #99
                    Well, for one thing, if such an event should occur, the poor admins of this site would get a huge spike in work load (from members wanting to know stuff, from finding the cause, from preparing and sending out information, etc.). They at least, might not appreciate more work.

                    Also, at least some of us appreciate the fact that the admins try their best at keeping this site updated and our info (however meager and irrelevant it might be) as secure as possible.
                    Torfinn

                    Comment


                      Sure, fine, security, whatever. There's still no conceivable excuse for all of the thread-navigation buttons to be useless inert lumps with JS disabled. None whatsoever. Zip. Zero. Nada. Period. End of story.
                      Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
                      Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Moog Satellite, Oberheim SEM
                      "'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup

                      Comment


                        Also, there is no double-arrow icon to get to the last page of a thread when accessed via your Subscriptions page (which is normally how I keep track of my activity in the forum).

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Agent Orange View Post

                          This below snapshot is everything that see when I click on the thread. As you can see, I missing those arrows.

                          My View.JPG
                          Today's "everything showed up" I now have the dates and arrows and the whole shebang.

                          Surely not everyone was Kung-fu fighting

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Agent Orange View Post

                            Today's "everything showed up" I now have the dates and arrows and the whole shebang.
                            This is what was missing:

                            Tingo.JPG
                            Note: Just using tingo as an example
                            Attached Files
                            Surely not everyone was Kung-fu fighting

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by tingo View Post
                              ...Also, at least some of us appreciate the fact that the admins try their best at keeping this site updated and our info (however meager and irrelevant it might be) as secure as possible.
                              Well, yes, I would certainly hope this is true. However, I know that if, while helping to secure systems for my employer, I radically changed how everyone was expected to work, where things could and couldn't be found, and what did and didn't function, without any warning, while claiming that 'change is a good thing', I'd be lucky to have a job before the day was out!

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by GiGaBiTe View Post

                                "Change is good" has become the moniker for the scam artists of the world to push newer and vastly inferior products and experiences, all the while knowing they're screwing you with their trashy fake smile. The cheeky cutesy little message at the top of the forum is just an offensive slap to the face.

                                Everything about the new forums is offensive to the vintage computer community. Not only do you have the eye bleeding mobile theme, but forced SSL, craptons of useless javascript and trashy "social media" with bookface and a HORRIBLE UI. What used to be able to be done with one or two clicks now takes infuriating numbers of clicks around and some functionality doesn't even exist anymore. Like you can't hit a button to select a thread page, you have to press the dumb fast forward button a bunch of times and watch it snap back and forth. But that is only scratching the surface of how horrible the new theme is.
                                You are completely correct. This site has literally become everything I hate about the modern web.

                                Hey mods, can you just accept the fact that this new theme has been a disaster? I thought you knew your audience better than this, guess I thought wrong.

                                Either they bring back the old forums (or at least fix the issues with this one) or I guess I'm going to have to find a new vintage computer hangout... does anyone have any suggestions? Does the VOGONS site still work on vintage computer hardware?
                                Vintage computer systems and peripherals I'm currently looking for:
                                IBM PS/2 Model P70, Compaq Contura 3/25, Any Toshiba Libretto laptop from the Libretto 50CT up to the 110CT, Commodore 1541 disk drive in working condition.

                                Send a PM if you are interested in selling any of these items to me. Thanks!

                                Comment

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