Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
See more
See less

Win98 on big memory systems

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Win98 on big memory systems

    Has anyone yet figured out a way to get Win98SE to run on a system with more than 1GB of RAM and AGP? I'm aware of the [vcache] fiddling, but that doesn't help AGP.

    In all the intervening years, has anyone figured out an answer?
    Reach me: vcfblackhole _at_ protonmail dot com.

    #2
    I wasn't even aware of that particular problem. Can't ya' just yank a stick of ram? But, seriously, I remember, way back when, I used to have a program that would remove a specified amount of ram from the pool so one could see how things would run under specifc memory limitations. Now, this was probably a DOS program but I'd bet there's a way to convince WIN98 that a system doesn't have as much memory as it actually does. I'm sure there are a few old Viruses and Trojans out there that did just that when they were king! Maybe a benign rootkit would do the trick? After all, and contrary to what MicroSloth would like you to believe, the older Windows versions still ran on top of DOS.
    PM me if you're looking for 3" or 5" floppy disks. EMail For everything else, Take Another Step

    Comment


      #3
      I've looked pretty hard. I think that Win98 uses the first 64M of memory for normal operation and the rest for Vcache. You can cut the size of Vcache and limit the high physical address used (MaxPhysicalBlocks), but Win98 won't recognize the AGP card because the AGP aperture (I've tried running it down to 16M with no soap) doesn't lie within Win98's addressing capabilities and the system defaults to 640x480 VGA.

      If this weren't a multi-boot system, I might just yank a stick or two. Unfortunately, that's not the case.
      Reach me: vcfblackhole _at_ protonmail dot com.

      Comment


        #4
        Another board I frequent has devoted multiple threads to that concept and has people claiming to run Win98 on systems with more than 1 GB and AGP video cards. Whether any of the techniques present work reliably, I can't answer. I am not about to try.

        http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/1180...han-1-gib-ram/

        Comment


          #5
          Well... There's a guy who has supposedly found a way around the limitation, but I'm rather skeptical. Considering the bold claims and complete lack of technical details, and the fact that he's selling the patch (even though most other Windows hackers release their unofficial patches for free), it kinda sets off my BS alarm. But, I've also seen a fair number of reports that it works. So it might be an avenue worth investigating, at least...

          Comment


            #6
            A registry edit usually works fine. I use it on my slot-a system running win98 and it has 1gb of ram and agp. I havent had any issues. Then again the system is designed around a pair of voodoo 2's... (I still have agp for 2d)

            LINK: http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic368.html
            It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

            Comment


              #7
              i didn't even know 98 had a problem with AGP cards. really? i could have sworn i've seen AGP driver downloads for cards for it. was it just the original edition that had this issue? now that i think about it, i KNOW (unless i'm nuts, which is likely) i've ran a 98SE box with the proper drivers for it's AGP card... but it's only if you have more than 1 GB of RAM, eh? i think the machine in question had exactly 1 GB so nevermind i suppose.
              sigpic

              Comment


                #8
                Yep, if I pull DIMMs until I have less than 1GB, the AGP's fine (right now I have an ASUS TNT+ Vanta installed, but I have a pile of others, including a Voodoo 3D).

                Yeah, it's screwy that you can actually have too much RAM.
                Reach me: vcfblackhole _at_ protonmail dot com.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I found out the hard way setting up a freinds CAD systems (he purchased the parts) back in 1999 or 2000. Win98 with anything over 500MB (or 750MB RAM) will not run, he had 1GB and a Geforce 2 or 3 AGP card.

                  These days I would run Win2k on any such system anyway, or just yank out the extra RAM (or use an intel 815e chipset that can't do more then 512MB anyway).
                  What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
                  Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
                  Boxed apps and games for the above systems
                  Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems

                  Comment


                    #10
                    See if anything here helps:

                    http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/1180...am/page__st__1

                    The section(s) about ramdisks looks interesting.
                    PM me if you're looking for 3" or 5" floppy disks. EMail For everything else, Take Another Step

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thought I'd cap this one off. I'm using a Supermicro P6DGE dual P3 using the i440GX chipset and 1.5GB installed memory. System performance seems to suffer if 2GB is installed; I suspect this is because the addressing limit of the chipset is maxed out and the BIOS makes some unfortunate choices as a result. AAR, not a Win98SE issue and 1.5GB is fine.

                      My final solution for Win98SE involved several steps.

                      The first was to edit SYSTEM.INI and change the MaxPhysPage and MaxFileCache values.

                      Then, apply the Unofficial Win98SE SP2.

                      Next, since a potload of memory was going to go unused, I installed the HIMEMX.EXE XMS driver and the XMSDSK.EXE RAMDisk driver. Note that if you're going to use Windows 98SE, you need to include the /t (load at top of XMS area) switch, otherwise Windows gets confused.

                      The last hurdle for me was using an ASUS TNT+ VANTA AGP card. Windows refused to accept that it was there, insisting on using the generic 16-color 640x480 VGA driver instead. That was fixed by going to desktop-properties->settings->advanced->adapter and telling Windows to use the AGP drivers that already had been loaded. You get a warning message, which it's safe to ignore.

                      The RAMDisk is being used for browser cache and system temp files. I don't think it's a good idea to try to use if for swap file, as XMSDSK is a real-mode driver and switching modes might not result in the performance improvement that might be expected.

                      I'm up and running. Operation seems to be pretty smooth.
                      Reach me: vcfblackhole _at_ protonmail dot com.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Chuck(G) View Post
                        Thought I'd cap this one off. I'm using a Supermicro P6DGE dual P3 using the i440GX chipset and 1.5GB installed memory. System performance seems to suffer if 2GB is installed; I suspect this is because the addressing limit of the chipset is maxed out and the BIOS makes some unfortunate choices as a result. AAR, not a Win98SE issue and 1.5GB is fine.
                        I assume that Win98se is not the primary OS for this system? No idea why you would use a dual processor and all that RAM unless you were running Win2k/XP or some form of NT or UNIX as well.
                        What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
                        Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
                        Boxed apps and games for the above systems
                        Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems

                        Comment


                          #13
                          No, I'm running 3 OSes on this system. As a matter of fact, the Win98SE partition boots to non-GUI DOS, but I don't count that as a separate OS. The important thing with Win 9x is being able run old VxDs, access I/O ports directly and not have any elaborate virtualization in the way.
                          Reach me: vcfblackhole _at_ protonmail dot com.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Out of curiousity Chuck, what other OSs are you running on it?
                            Thomas Byers (DRI)- "You'll have a million people using the A> [MS-DOS prompt] forever. You'll have five million using [nongraphic] menu systems such as Topview, Concurrent PC-DOS, Desq, and those types. But there'll be 50 to 100 million using the iconic-based interfaces."

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Glad you found the fix. That's odd that the RAM + AGP cause an issue, obviously I never had more than 1GB on my 98se box but I definitely had AGP on my custom system at the time running fine with it. I think you already know this but despite the RAM workaround 98 won't use more than 768MB of RAM IIRC even though it will recognize it being there after the modification.
                              Looking to acquire: IBM 5100, Altair 8800

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X