Forum etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.

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There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

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To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
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"PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

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Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
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Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.

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If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.

New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.

Other suggestions
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So how fast is your internet?

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    So how fast is your internet?

    Roadrunner sent me an email saying they upgraded my basic cable modem speed from 10Mbs/1Mbs to 15Mbs/1Mbs today. Speedtest says I get 20Mbs from multiple servers (which to be honest is about what I used to get anyway).

    What are you guys getting?
    What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
    Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
    Boxed apps and games for the above systems
    Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems

    I get 29.36down/10.95up from Comcast.
    My Retro Computing and Vintage Gaming Blog :


      It must be nice to have such internet speeds available to you. We live in a rural area with no access to cable or DSL so we have a wireless internet connection. Here's the Speedtest results from a test I just ran:

      This connection costs $91/month. Luckily, my employer pays that, otherwise I would choose a slower but more affordable option.


        Cablemodem connection through in Chile.
        download:43.47 Mbps
        upload: 4.33 Mbps



          Everybody knows this but speed test results vary so much even on the same connection. The target, the time of day, and your ISP can make a huge difference.

          Using SpeedTest.Net I'm measuring 46Mb/sec down and 4.1Mb/sec up. To a more realistic server run by "" it is 11Mb/sec down, 4Mb/sec up. And the latency for a ping response is 3x longer to that server.

          Don't get too hung up on any number. Use it more to figure out what class of service you are paying for to your ISP. Anything beyond your ISP's local network is a crapshoot.



            Originally posted by mac512 View Post
            Cablemodem connection through in Chile.

            download:43.47 Mbps
            upload: 4.33 Mbps
            Being in the internet business, it always amazes me how much further along with speeds the rest of the world is over the US. We might cover a higher percentage of our land mass, but they stomp us in speed and quality.

            My company is a rural ISP, so speeds aren't up there with the national providers. That said, we offer up to 9mb/768kb class speeds, but I often burst up to 12mbps in real world tests.
            Currently seeking:
            * Roland MPU-401/AT (with daughter card header)
            * Magitronic K-156 Keyboard (5pin DIN w/ XT-AT switch)
            I also collect PC and C64 Sierra On-Line software!


              My account advertises 1.5Mb/s. I haven't checked in a while, but just did so now. I am getting very close to that and even more on one test. My historical average tends to be about 1.3Mb/s or so. Upload is usually considerably faster and this time hit 2.5Mb/s for the fastest one. Unlike cable and DSL, wireless commonly is faster on the uplink for some reason.

              That said, I'm not sure that particular test has any practical value. For one, I notice they quote my outward facing IP. That is the same one that is used by at least 3 other (larger) towns, so I suspect that the speeds might not be to my computer. In practice I notice that servers tend to be slow to react, so speed is not so much of an issue because there is a wait for each of the components of a web page, which nowadays can be quit a few and from all over the world. I have a feeling that there are buffers in the system, which also would make speed tests irrelevant.

              I think it depends on what you a doing. The internet is not a circuit like with a POTS connection and the traffic shaping devices that are installed at many points are both an unknown and highly variable. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if something like was on the whitelist for most traffic shaping appliances.
              WANTED: Cardinal 2450MNP modem.



                At least not only downsides in living in a densely populated area (although not my preference)
                “Thus, we see that one of the obvious origins of human disagreement lies in the use of noises for words.”


                  It is easier to have fast broadband in tightly packed areas like Europe and Asia, people in the US are just spread out too far. The funny thing is few websites can feed you fast enough to saturate a 5Mbs connection anyway (I use Netflix HD streaming and can still browse the web with no speed issues).
                  What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
                  Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
                  Boxed apps and games for the above systems
                  Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems


                    Indeed - initially my connection was 16 Mbit, which would still perfectly fit my needs.
                    Competition and marketing gave me automatic increases over the last 5 years - but its just a number.
                    “Thus, we see that one of the obvious origins of human disagreement lies in the use of noises for words.”


                      50mbit/s down, 5mbit/s up, reliable, sustained, no bandwidth/overage caps. My provider is Wide Open West.

                      And of course I wish it were faster.
                      Offering a bounty for:
                      - A working Sanyo MBC-775 or Logabax 1600
                      - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)


                        What's "cable"?

                        You guys must live in South Korea or another technologically advanced country. Tops available to me is 1.2M down, 750K up on a good day. I caught a fellow a couple of months ago marking the underground cable along side the road with his paint and flags. Since the county had just resurfaced the road, I didn't figure it was for more road work. It turns out that CenturyLink is thinking about running some real fiber up the road and the guy was from their contractor doing a bit of surveying.

                        That could make things quite pleasant if it extended to the DSL service.


                          Switched over to the dark side (convinced by wiffy and stepson to get on board) at the beginning of the month and getting just over 8Mbps up and just over 1Mbps down at the moment. This is cabled up to the router. Using WiFi it drops in half. This is sill though POTS wiring. They're in the process of running fibre-optic cabling though out our suburb so we coming out of the dark age by the end of 2013.
                          Thomas Byers (DRI)- "You'll have a million people using the A> [MS-DOS prompt] forever. You'll have five million using [nongraphic] menu systems such as Topview, Concurrent PC-DOS, Desq, and those types. But there'll be 50 to 100 million using the iconic-based interfaces."


                            'Cable' as in a coax-wired cable TV connection simultaniously used for broadband - at least that is it with me.
                            Connections up to 120Mbit/s are available with that here, using EuroDocsis 3 protocol (supports up to 400 Mbit)
                            Fair enough the coax part is mostly just street to house, the rest is glassfiber. Currently glassfiber-to-the-home is in progressing fast too.
                            As 98% of Dutch households has a cable connection installed (originally for TV) its one of the main internet connection types in use, although ADSL is readily available too.
                            “Thus, we see that one of the obvious origins of human disagreement lies in the use of noises for words.”


                              Originally posted by Caluser2000 View Post
                              ... 8Mbps up and just over 1Mbps down ... Using WiFi it drops in half. ...
                              Must be something wrong with your setup. Even the older 802.11b & g routers should have been able to keep up with an 8M connection.