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Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
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How do you view the preservation of vintage computers and their component

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    How do you view the preservation of vintage computers and their component

    How would you categorize your involvement and philosophy with regard to the preservation of vintage computers and their components?

    For the purposes of this poll you are either a Vintage Computer Collector or a Vintage Computer User who has them for work or enjoys them for another reason and is not a Collector, per se.

    You may only select one of the four choices.
    18
    A Vintage Computer Collector should not destroy, recycle or similarly dispose of such hardware.
    33.33%
    6
    A Vintage Computer Collector who is the owner of that equipment can dispose of it accordingly.
    16.67%
    3
    A Vintage Computer User should not destroy, recycle or similarly dispose of such hardware.
    11.11%
    2
    A Vintage Computer User who is the owner of that equipment can dispose of it accordingly.
    38.89%
    7
    Last edited by lutiana; December 26, 2019, 12:00 PM.
    PM me if you're looking for 3" or 5" floppy disks. EMail For everything else, Take Another Step

    #2
    Not sure what you're on about, but I view the preservation of documentation far more than any bit of hardware. Eventually, the hardware will be lost to natural deterioration, natural catastrophe or just plain "I need to get rid of this stuff and don't have the time to deal with a bunch of people who want to complicate my life."

    The documentation will offer insights into the thought and design, as well as operation.

    Put it another way--would you rather have a bunch of tapes that you can't read (easily) or the data contained thereon? One is pretty to look at, I guess, but the other has real meaning.
    Reach me: vcfblackhole _at_ protonmail dot com.

    Comment


      #3
      The part that needs preserving is the design evolution of the components and the software they ran. The Physical machines and components don't really matter.
      What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
      Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
      Boxed apps and games for the above systems
      Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems

      Comment


        #4
        I can't really make a selection because I believe that no one should dispose of this equipment, but I believe in private property rights so of course they may

        Comment


          #5
          I think you need to fix the poll; the questions are duplicated.
          Reach me: vcfblackhole _at_ protonmail dot com.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Chuck(G) View Post
            Not sure what you're on about, but I view the preservation of documentation far more than any bit of hardware. Eventually, the hardware will be lost to natural deterioration, natural catastrophe or just plain "I need to get rid of this stuff and don't have the time to deal with a bunch of people who want to complicate my life."

            The documentation will offer insights into the thought and design, as well as operation.

            Put it another way--would you rather have a bunch of tapes that you can't read (easily) or the data contained thereon? One is pretty to look at, I guess, but the other has real meaning.
            without a tangible representation of a technology (be it electronic or otherwise,) my mind is utterly disinterested in learning the concepts that underpin it

            i.e. my only interest in books is to help me learn more about physical things that I can interact with, reading in abstract is about as appealing as hitting myself in the groin with a hammer

            Comment


              #7
              ...and yet, all of this started out as intangibles. For me, that's where understanding starts and ends. Physical embodiment might be useful, but it's the thought that counts.

              I take it that you're not a mathematician or physicist.
              Reach me: vcfblackhole _at_ protonmail dot com.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Chuck(G) View Post
                ...and yet, all of this started out as intangibles. For me, that's where understanding starts and ends. Physical embodiment might be useful, but it's the thought that counts.

                I take it that you're not a mathematician or physicist.
                I do love mathematics, the elegance and purity are compelling, but the bottom line is I'm a junkie to sensory stimuli and a materialist

                Comment


                  #9
                  As I do a lot of data retrieval, I routinely encounter media and data for which functionally operating computer systems are no longer in existence. It's the old documentation that makes saving the information possible (Thanks, Al). It's not at all unusual that the client no longer wants the original medium--it's not what matters.

                  Once you've got the data retrieved, you can rig up an emulation/simulation to bring it back to life.

                  I'm not much interested in accumulating clay tablets so much as the information they contain.
                  Reach me: vcfblackhole _at_ protonmail dot com.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The questions are for a separation of user from collector. To be a useful poll, it would need to have the ability to accept an answer for both user and collector cases. Though I don't believe there is a clear demarcation between the two, most computer collectors also plan on using the equipment.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I answered #4. However, I personally have a very hard time getting rid of ANY of my old parts or computers. I have traded away a couple of items, but regretted it later! Anyone want to come over and help me clear out some of my hoard?

                      Greg

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ibmapc View Post
                        I answered #4. However, I personally have a very hard time getting rid of ANY of my old parts or computers.
                        I guess I should have included a pair of responses for hoarders, as well.
                        PM me if you're looking for 3" or 5" floppy disks. EMail For everything else, Take Another Step

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by krebizfan View Post
                          The questions are for a separation of user from collector. To be a useful poll, it would need to have the ability to accept an answer for both user and collector cases. Though I don't believe there is a clear demarcation between the two, most computer collectors also plan on using the equipment.
                          Yes, my point, in spite of my lack of clarity in my earlier statement. Are there only two categories? For example, there are the eBay flippers, the gold-bugs, etc.
                          Reach me: vcfblackhole _at_ protonmail dot com.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            To Chuck's point: I started collecting old computers because I found I still had digital information from 30-40 years ago - programs and documentation - in my possession, and I was curious to revisit it. Partly that was due to wondering about how it compared with modern offerings - how far things have progressed, as it were - and partly because, in my untutored ignorance of 30-40 years ago, most of it was beyond my ken. It wasn't what I did for a living and there was only so much time to spend learning. Call this a second childhood.

                            But to your point: I'm not a collector of equipment that is rare, for the sake of its rarity, or valuable, for the sake of its value, but of things that interest or fascinate me that I want to better understand. I never have seen a reader or a punch in operation but one day I'd like to find one; I still remember the CP/M terms and the mystery they held for me. I consider myself a caretaker: if I have collected something I want it to work, and I will do what I can to restore or improve its operation. My chief obstacle is my lack of knowledge, particularly in the field of electronics. Sometimes I make fatal errors: Mine is a pretty small and mundane lot.

                            I have never sold anything I acquired, but I have thrown away a few things that I thought were unworkable, just for lack of knowing where to find repair. On the other hand I have given quite a number away, if I thought the recipient could use them. Some might be considered classics today.

                            I guess all that puts me in category two: A Vintage Computer Collector who is the owner of that equipment can dispose of it accordingly. But the people who want to make fishbowls out of their 5153 monitors are misguided, in my opinion and the people who make their living "flipping" items on eBay are, at best, a necessary evil and, at worst, (expletive deleted).

                            My thanks to all who frequent this site and offer their wisdom and experience, making possible for me this fascinating endeavor.

                            -CH-

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Chuck(G) View Post
                              I'm not much interested in accumulating clay tablets so much as the information they contain.
                              Sometimes the value of the medium is both art and message: https://www.clevelandart.org/art/1914.656

                              -CH-

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