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This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

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There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
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To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
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Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

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Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


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If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
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Wanted: Pair of Slot 1 Pentium III CPUs - 750MHz and up

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  • High_Treason
    replied
    Ah, well, if anyone is interested, I've got my YouTube video done; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1X9HOQ6aKA

    I also added a Special Thanks at the end, though I put "member of the vintage-computer.com" forums, as I didn't know if you wanted your names plastered all over the web.

    Oh, I'm also glad to hear you got the memory issue sorted. I had problems with the bootloader too (Windows XP's one) as it doesn't like dual-booting with Win9X on SCSI. I installed the OS on the IDE drive and just install programs to the SCSI drive so it likely doesn't do that much harm to performance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chuck(G)
    replied
    I figured out the 2GB issue while I had the box out of the rack. It turns out it wasn't Win98SE at all that was hanging things up.

    I use Grub as my multibooter. It turns out that the older version of Grub I have installed has an issue with the memory space full (440GX limit is 2GB).
    Grub wants to boot in graphics mode and takes forever (like about 45 seconds) to get the menu up when it can't figure out where to put an AGP aperture.

    The easy fix is to change the Grub configuration file to keep things in text mode. Just adding

    GRUB_TERMINAL=console

    does the trick.

    Leave a comment:


  • luckybob
    replied
    Originally posted by Chuck(G) View Post
    I haven't fooled with the multiplier jumpers, but I suspect that they probably don't do anything with later P3s.

    Anyway, good to hear that you're getting past watching the fans spin.
    you can set the multiplier to whatever you want, it wont matter. ever since the introduction of the pentium 2, chips have been locked. But if you find engineering samples... different story.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chuck(G)
    replied
    I haven't fooled with the multiplier jumpers, but I suspect that they probably don't do anything with later P3s.

    Anyway, good to hear that you're getting past watching the fans spin.

    Leave a comment:


  • High_Treason
    replied
    Seems I compared the wrong file, my BIOS was indeed not updated. I tried flashing again but the same thing happened.

    Turns out if you put the SUPER.ROM backup on the same disk the system pauses before post and flashes that back over the BIOS... POST and the rest of the boot procedure got a nice speed boost too with the update and my DOS prompt doesn't start with ^@^@ anymore (It used to behave as if I had pressed keys during boot).

    Now to test the CPUs... THEY WORK! Now, guess I'll be installing that active northbridge cooler (I found one on a dead KT266 board that fits plus the heatsink is twice as thick. Better take care of the CPUs first though, they have huge passive heatsinks on that I swear are made of steel... I never liked Dell.

    I use a Radeon VE in my system... So really I don't have room to criticise other people's cards given that I and the people I hang about with consider those a bit of a joke - most OpenGL people do, it's mostly the fault of drivers. The reason I dislike 3DFX probably comes from being into the demoscene, sceners don't like 3DFX which is why you won't find many demos for them. Might put the GeForce 4 Ti in here though as I am parting out my Athlon 1400 system. I'll likely throw a YouTube video of the machine up in a few days anyway.

    Thanks for the help, I shall report back if I need anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chuck(G)
    replied
    Here's what I've got in my P6DGE.

    BIOS is R3.1 (112100130)

    Multiplier is set to x7 at JB1-4 (on-off-on-off)

    CPUs are SL4BS 1000/256/133 1.7V S1 (IBM-branded with purple handles)

    That's what I can see without disassembling the case (EIA rack-mount)

    FWIW, I changed the video card to an ASUS TNT2-VANTA (It's what I had on hand)

    Leave a comment:


  • luckybob
    replied
    Actually, I'd make sure you had the correct bios. As for the 133 running @ 100. I know that they SHOULD, but that's never 100%. Also, the bios is probably looking at SL4BS and saying "WTF do I do with this?" The 850 (SL43F, SL47M, SL4BW, SL4KH) was the last "official" 100mhz fsb chip. the 1000/100 I think was more of a fluke to be honest. Looking at us and uk ebay prices, people are wanting a premium for said 850's. A pair for $50us (34 eu) seems to be a "deal".

    Leave a comment:


  • High_Treason
    replied
    Apparently these will run at 750MHz at that FSB speed though, which is all I am targeting at the moment (though 133MHz is meant to be possible).

    I guess flashing the BIOS again to be sure can't be a problem, but I think they just forgot to increment the number as dumping the ROM seems to create a file identical to the updated bios file and not the original. I'll try it when I've had some sleep.

    Leave a comment:


  • luckybob
    replied
    SL4BS processors are 133 fsb. Not 100. Also, if the bios revision did not change, you didnt flash it correctly.

    Leave a comment:


  • High_Treason
    replied
    Right, I don't like double posting, but I'm also not sure wether to start a new thread, so I'll use this one. If admins/mods/whoever thinks otherwise, I'll create a new one.

    So @chuck(g); My SL4BS processors arrived today, the system will not boot with these installed - blank screen although the keyboard LEDs flash, did I miss something?

    I set the multiplier to 7.5 (jumpers seem to be right to left, but I tried it the other way too) and also set the FSB jumper to 100MHz (as opposed to auto) but neither combination seems to work. I have only one other S1 board capable of using P3's and it's not reliable though they seem to run in that one. I did update the BIOS with the newest one I could get from archives of SuperMicro's site (though as far as I can tell, R3.1 was the only release they ever did outside of R2.1 that the board came with) - oddly the POST screen still says R2.1

    There are no beeps from the PC Speaker.

    Leave a comment:


  • High_Treason
    replied
    That's a mystery to me as I can't reproduce it without raising my disk size above 1.43GB, presumably something tries to allocate that memory or else the system simply can't allocate it.

    All I can say is to play with it given that I'm still tweaking my own setup. I suspect the whole thing is kind of "hit-and-miss" as to wether it will work though. Keep in mind I only discovered this around two days ago (despite the idea being in my head for around a decade). Mostly because the system was running Windows 2003 the last time I used it and didn't require such things to be done.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chuck(G)
    replied
    Here's my CONFIG.SYS as it now stands with 1.5GB installed:

    Code:
    DEVICE=C:\XMS\HIMEM\HIMEMX.EXE /NUMHANDLES=64
    DOS=HIGH,UMB
    FILES=50
    LASTDRIVE=Z
    DEVICEHIGH=TIMCD.SYS /D:MSCD0000
    and then in AUTOEXEC.BAT:

    Code:
    C:\XMS\XMSDISK\XMSDSK.EXE S: 768000 /Y /T
    Works fine with 1.5GB, but hangs at Windows GUI startup with 2GB.

    Leave a comment:


  • High_Treason
    replied
    3dfx
    Eww, I'd blame anything that went wrong in the machine on that. Recently had a real hard time removing one from a single P3 system I use and it still freezes when I try to start 3D applications - no doubt I'll have to re-install the OS and spend a week setting my MIDI gear up again. I know they have a following and all, I can respect that even though I don't understand it, but I have never had a good experience when running 3DFX cards.

    Oh, and if anyone is bothered, I bought these; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAIR-OF-IN...item3c9ceab5f9 - (Caleb from Blood) "Hmm, this promises to be fun."
    Last edited by High_Treason; May 21, 2013, 03:18 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chuck(G)
    replied
    Pretty much what I do, but I still get 98SE GUI hanging. It could be the AGP card I'm using (3dfx Voodoo).

    Leave a comment:


  • High_Treason
    replied
    Quick Edit: I wrote this before the two posts above appeared, you may be able to modify your existing RAM Drive, but it MUST be at the end of RAM.

    Funny thing is, the reason I tracked down the manual was to find out what that did and was planning on testing it today. Now I know what it does, so I shall be attempting to run the CPUs at that speed.

    To run Windows 98 with 2GB you will have to mess with the vitrual memory, it has the potential to actually decrease performance if you run a lot of large apps as you limit the memory size a lot, otherwise, it actually increases performance. This method is not practical on an OS that can address the memory properly.

    First, open SYSTEM.INI in the Windows folder and find the line [386Enh] under which you either need to add or edit the line MaxPhysPage= so it reads MaxPhysPage=1FFFF - this will limit the OS to 512MB of RAM only. Make sure the OS still boots before continuing.

    Download HIMEMX and install it somewhere (I use C:\Windows\Command\) and edit the CONFIG.SYS file, if you have HIMEM.SYS loaded, you don't need it anymore. Instead use DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\HIMEMX.EXE.

    You may also need to add
    DOS=HIGH
    FILES=240
    BUFFERS=64,8
    FCBS=40,8
    STACKS=18,256



    You might want to edit your MSDOS.SYS with BootGUI=0 for troubleshooting.

    Download XMSDSK and put it in C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ before editing AUTOEXEC.BAT
    Add the line LH XMSDSK 1536000 /T /Y (This is a little ocer 1.4GB, you can tweak it later) and reboot the machine. This was for a 2GB install, you would have to use a lower value... Maybe around 983040 (Try 980000 to be safe - assuming AGP Apeture is 64MB)

    You should get a message saying which letter the disk is on. Assuming you did stop the gui boot and the ramdisk is E: you can EDIT C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM.INI and go back to the [386Enh] section, now add or edit the line PagingDrive=E:

    Back on the DOS prompt, type WIN to load Windows. Check the MS-RAMDRIVE in My Computer, there should be a WIN386.SWP on there. Leave the drive alone and try to run a few things. Windows may fail to boot and get an out of memory. This seems to be related to poor allocation and the AGP Apeture, lower the size on the XMSDSK line in Autoexec.bat. If everything works, you can try raising that value. The RAMDISK must be loaded BEFORE Windows.

    Leave a comment:

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