Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
See more
See less

MOS 6509 sources?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    MOS 6509 sources?

    Hi again all it's been a while since my last project, now I have got myself a Commodore 710 that
    is as dead as a dodo.

    It has started to make me paranoid about using my B256, so I am wondering where you can get
    a MOS 6509 and was wondering how prone they are to failure.

    I am not sure if it has gone in the 710 but I will check it in my B256 first.
    Last edited by Pet Rescue; September 5, 2014, 03:12 PM.

    #2
    Commodore only made about 35,000 CBM-II machines in total and the 6509 was only used in the CBM-II line. It's not likely they made many spare 6509 cpu chips. So, the best source of 6509's is from another dead CBM-II machine. I don't think we have enough data to determine how prone to failure they are. The best hope we have in my opinion is the "visual6502" organization, who are collecting old chips, decapping them, photographing them and then simulating them. At that point they can be re-created using modern FPGA chips. Hopefully at some point someone will donate a 6509 and other rare MOS chips (like the 6525, 6530, 6532).

    There was also a discussion on 6502.org forum about recreating a 6509 using a 6502 and some additional chips, but it was only a theory.

    I've never seen a 6509 chip for sale by itself on ebay.

    Steve
    WANTED: CBM-II hardware or software, PET software

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for the reply Steve, looks like my fingers and toes are crossed then that it's ok.
      Let's hope they aren't like TED and PLA chips, oh well I'll just have to deal with the paranoia for now.

      I'll add one to my list with the P500, SCPU, hen's teeth and that rockin horse stuff for the garden.

      Did you make any progress on the TIB drive project?

      Comment


        #4
        Yes, lets hope it's ok. TED chips do tend to die easily, but the PLA has been cloned.

        I got as far as buying all the parts to clone the TIB drive but that's it. I actually bought both the PLCC and the DIP versions of the floppy controller chip.
        It's another project I'd like to get back to.

        Steve
        WANTED: CBM-II hardware or software, PET software

        Comment


          #5
          Steve can the PLA be made from a fast EPROM like they do with the C64 and 8296D?

          I bet you are busy with the colour pet projects, many projects and not enough spare time to work on all of them.

          I never seem to get round to tinkering on the B Series machines but I will have to test that 6509 though then check
          the ROM's etc.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Pet Rescue View Post
            Steve can the PLA be made from a fast EPROM like they do with the C64 and 8296D?

            I bet you are busy with the colour pet projects, many projects and not enough spare time to work on all of them.

            I never seem to get round to tinkering on the B Series machines but I will have to test that 6509 though then check
            the ROM's etc.
            I don't know of anyone replacing a CBM-II PLA with an eprom, but I believe it should be possible just like in the 8296. The "SuperPLA" (http://www.protovision-online.com/ha...hp?language=en) is listed as compatible, however I have not tested it.

            ColourPET firmware is coming along, although I haven't worked on it for a while. I need to fix a few bugs, like proper colour during cursor movement. The last work I did on the edit rom was to allow an 80-column PET to switch between 40 and 80 column mode using ESC-X. I need to get back to that, and also to finish the hardware and work on ColourPET+G.... so many things, so little time.

            Steve
            WANTED: CBM-II hardware or software, PET software

            Comment


              #7
              No need to worry about the PLA I've just put the 6509 in the B256 and the screen went mental.

              So I quickly put my old one back and luckily there was a prompt. My worst fears are realised that it was dead.
              It say MOS 6509AR7 DATED 83 what does AR7 stand for as the B256 just says MOS 6509 DATED 82.
              So am I in for a long wait for a new equivalent then as a 6502 and 6510 aren't compatible.

              I didn't dare to try the working one in the 710.
              Last edited by Pet Rescue; September 7, 2014, 10:43 AM.

              Comment


                #8
                I can't help with a 6509 but for a source of 6532s... I'm 99.999% certain that 1526 and MPS-802 printers had one, possibly two of them on their mainboard.
                my blog: http://dfarq.homeip.net
                I wanna live where it's always Saturday. --Guadalcanal Diary

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Dave Farquhar View Post
                  I can't help with a 6509 but for a source of 6532s... I'm 99.999% certain that 1526 and MPS-802 printers had one, possibly two of them on their mainboard.
                  Cheers Dave I have a couple of 8250lp's that have the 6532 in I think so it's good to know, do they fail regularly?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Pet Rescue View Post
                    Cheers Dave I have a couple of 8250lp's that have the 6532 in I think so it's good to know, do they fail regularly?
                    The 8250LP uses the 6530. The 6530 (RRIOT - RAM/ROM/IO/TIMER) chips are very prone to failure. They contain ROM, so you generally can't interchange them. However, in the 8250LP's case it uses a small daughter board and EPROM that overrides the contents of the RRIOT, so in that case you can use any RRIOT chip.

                    There has been some success as well adapting a 6532 (RIOT)+EPROM to function as a 6530 (RRIOT): http://www.baltissen.org/newhtm/6530repl.htm

                    Steve
                    Last edited by sjgray; September 7, 2014, 08:23 PM.
                    WANTED: CBM-II hardware or software, PET software

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by sjgray View Post
                      The 8250LP uses the 6530. The 6530 (RRIOT - RAM/ROM/IO/TIMER) chips are very prone to failure. They contain ROM, so you generally can't interchange them. However, in the 8250LP's case it uses a small daughter board and EPROM that overrides the contents of the RRIOT, so in that case you can use any RRIOT chip.

                      There has been some success as well adapting a 6532 (RIOT)+EPROM to function as a 6530 (RRIOT): http://www.baltissen.org/newhtm/6530repl.htm

                      Steve
                      Thanks for that Steve I still have a lot to learn on these machines, just out of interest do the B256 and 710 run at the same clock speed, the CPU in the B256 is a just a 6509 but the 710 it is a 6509AR7 usually A means 2mhz and could R7 be a revision number if so would a 2mhz 6509 run in a 1mhz machine?

                      Or am I clutching at straws hoping a mismatch in speed made the screen go mental!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Pet Rescue View Post
                        Thanks for that Steve I still have a lot to learn on these machines, just out of interest do the B256 and 710 run at the same clock speed, the CPU in the B256 is a just a 6509 but the 710 it is a 6509AR7 usually A means 2mhz and could R7 be a revision number if so would a 2mhz 6509 run in a 1mhz machine?

                        Or am I clutching at straws hoping a mismatch in speed made the screen go mental!
                        All b machines run at 2mhz. Only the p500 runs at 1mhz. I believe all 6509s were rated for 2mhz.

                        Steve
                        WANTED: CBM-II hardware or software, PET software

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Damn I thought I was clutching at straws!

                          Out of interest Steve, it came with a "calc result bx700" cartridge. It says for the commodore 700 but would it work on the B256 or is it 700 only?

                          If you can use it, is the software on the cartridge or is it used as a dongle like on other copy protection software therefor would you need a disk?

                          Oh and realistically what are my chances of obtaining a 6509?

                          Were they manufactured for the wider world or just the CBM II range and when CBUG bought the stocks of computers were any spares sold as well?

                          Sorry for all the questions

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Pet Rescue View Post
                            Damn I thought I was clutching at straws!

                            Out of interest Steve, it came with a "calc result bx700" cartridge. It says for the commodore 700 but would it work on the B256 or is it 700 only?

                            If you can use it, is the software on the cartridge or is it used as a dongle like on other copy protection software therefor would you need a disk?

                            Oh and realistically what are my chances of obtaining a 6509?

                            Were they manufactured for the wider world or just the CBM II range and when CBUG bought the stocks of computers were any spares sold as well?

                            Sorry for all the questions
                            The BX700 was never released. It was to have the 8088 coprocessor card in it. Model numbering is crazy (see my site for details: http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/com...bm2/index.html).

                            Yes, the cartridge also requires the disk. http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/com...calcresult.jpg

                            According to the manual it requires a "700 series computer" and an 8250 disk drive. I'm surprised that it says 8250 as most B-series software only required an 8050. I admit I've never tried to use Calc Result so I can't verify that it's 100% correct. Unfortunately commodore were changing things very late in the game, so most commercial software ended up only running on the 128K machines. So when it says "700 series" I don't know if that means 710 (with 128K) or 720 (with 256K). The 128K and 256K machines have different ROMs. There is one screenshot in the manual and it shows the 128K roms.

                            The 6509 was only used in the CBM-II line and nothing else. AFAIK CBUG never bought any... it was Protecto. In any case in the CBUG newsletters there is no mention of any supply of spare parts anywhere.

                            Steve
                            WANTED: CBM-II hardware or software, PET software

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Some of the Calc Result cartridges might origin from me. I don't know why Handic/Datatronic labeled it BX700 as that model never emerged, but in any case I cracked one cartridge open and found a PET (?) character ROM soldered to the board. As the CBM II series are not able to use custom fonts, and the PET would anyhow use 8x8 while the CBM-II line have different character dimensions, I'm entirely convinced this is a copy protection dongle and for some reason they had a huge surplus of PET character ROMs which were cheaper to use than program a custom EPROM, although the latter could've contained some executable code instead of only work as a dongle.
                              Anders Carlsson

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X