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Osborne 1 <--> PC over RS232

giobbi

Veteran Member
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Dec 23, 2012
Messages
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São Paulo country, Brazil
Hi all,

I apologize if this question was already posted in past, but the search function didn't return a useful result...

I have an Osborne 1 with SS-SD disks. I would use the 22disk to transfer software from my IBM XT to the Osborne, but unfortunately 22disk only operate with SS-DD disks.

I decided to try the serial port transfer. I found this article:

http://www.toniwestbrook.com/archives/80

that's quite interesting, but unfortunately it isn't a fully step-by-step instruction.

Does anybody has some specific instructions for that? I know nothing about CP/M, and I was looking for some dummy-proof instructions, like:
"1) type this on the DOS side... 2) type this on the Osborne side... You've done!"

In the specific, I don't know what software should I use neither on the XT (Telix? Laplink? Debug.com?), nor on the Osborne (PIP?).
Also, I don't know how to set the com speed on the Osborne...

Thank you for you help!

Giovi
 
Just on the PC/XT side...Procomm or Telix should do the job. The Osborne side....hmm....Kermit? I managed to get my Kaypro talking to my PC with Kermit.

Tez
 
It's not that 22Disk operates only with DD disks--it's that your XT controller is not capable of writing or reading SD (FM). Some third-party XT controllers are however.

Does your O1 have the DD mod installed, perchance? 22Disk can certainly write the SSDD floppies on your XT. The SSSD O1 floppies didn't hold much--about 90KB.
 
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I've had pretty good results using OTERM by Michael Rubinstein on the OCC as a terminal, but I haven't tried to transfer files with it. I haven't gotten Kermit to work (but also haven't tried very hard.) The last Kermit version I tried turned both disk drive motors on and made the piezo buzz continuously. Strange and alarming.
 
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Serial port transfers require that you already have your Osborne booting, if so yes serial transfers are best since you don't have to find an old PC that handles SD.

There are lots of serial transfer programs. It is a chicken or the egg issue in getting software transferred the first time.

My favorite method to get software onto a CP/M machine the is to convert the program to ascii (bin2hex, unload, etc). This gives you 2 important abilities: Each line has a checksum which will let you know if there is an error and it's 7-bit so if the BIOS strips the 8th bit no biggie.

Often the serial port is referred to as RDR: and PUN: (paper tape reader and punch), I'm not sure if that's true with the Osborne. Assuming it is to transfer a hex file to the Osborne just use pip:

Start with a slow baud rate and set both the Osborne and the PC to the same speed, just use 300 baud - no reason to go faster and that helps to guarantee no lost characters.

On the Osborne side type "pip x:filename.hex=rdr:" where x is the desired drive (A or B) and filename is obviously the file name.

After the Osborne is ready on the PC side send the hex file via hyperterm or your favorite terminal emulater. Now just wait until done then type Control-Z on the PC side (Control-Z id end-of-file character for CP/M).

On the Osborne side pip should close and you should have the hex file.

Now just using the CP/M load program you can convert the HEX file to a COM file (ie load filename.hex)

Now you have a new program on the Osborne side.

My favorite serial file transfer program is move-it (http://www.cpm.z80.de/randyfiles/DRI/MOVE-IT.ZIP has CP/M-80, CP/M-86, and PC-DOS versions and manual).

Move-it can be controlled from either computer and can handle higher than 300 baud transfers (you have to experiment to find highest working baudrate).

Move-it is not for BBS type stuff but is a special purpose program to transfer files quickly between two computers near each other. It is menu driven with the ability to pull up directories of either computer from either computer and control everything from either computer.


The big trick is the chicken or egg issue to transfer programs first you must transfer a program.

Also note the MOVE-IT.ZIP file needs to be expanded on you PC first.

Move-it also requires a PC with a real serial port and not a USB to serial adapter. If that's not an option then you will need to use one of the many other programs.


Randy
 
Serial port transfers require that you already have your Osborne booting, if so yes serial transfers are best since you don't have to find an old PC that handles SD.

There are lots of serial transfer programs. It is a chicken or the egg issue in getting software transferred the first time.

My favorite method to get software onto a CP/M machine the is to convert the program to ascii (bin2hex, unload, etc). This gives you 2 important abilities: Each line has a checksum which will let you know if there is an error and it's 7-bit so if the BIOS strips the 8th bit no biggie.

Often the serial port is referred to as RDR: and PUN: (paper tape reader and punch), I'm not sure if that's true with the Osborne. Assuming it is to transfer a hex file to the Osborne just use pip:

Start with a slow baud rate and set both the Osborne and the PC to the same speed, just use 300 baud - no reason to go faster and that helps to guarantee no lost characters.

On the Osborne side type "pip x:filename.hex=rdr:" where x is the desired drive (A or B) and filename is obviously the file name.

After the Osborne is ready on the PC side send the hex file via hyperterm or your favorite terminal emulater. Now just wait until done then type Control-Z on the PC side (Control-Z id end-of-file character for CP/M).

On the Osborne side pip should close and you should have the hex file.

Now just using the CP/M load program you can convert the HEX file to a COM file (ie load filename.hex)

Now you have a new program on the Osborne side.

My favorite serial file transfer program is move-it (http://www.cpm.z80.de/randyfiles/DRI/MOVE-IT.ZIP has CP/M-80, CP/M-86, and PC-DOS versions and manual).

Move-it can be controlled from either computer and can handle higher than 300 baud transfers (you have to experiment to find highest working baudrate).

Move-it is not for BBS type stuff but is a special purpose program to transfer files quickly between two computers near each other. It is menu driven with the ability to pull up directories of either computer from either computer and control everything from either computer.


The big trick is the chicken or egg issue to transfer programs first you must transfer a program.

Also note the MOVE-IT.ZIP file needs to be expanded on you PC first.

Move-it also requires a PC with a real serial port and not a USB to serial adapter. If that's not an option then you will need to use one of the many other programs.


Randy

After some tests, some help by Larry and almost an afternoon, I succesfully transferred an ASCII (asm source) file from PC to Osborne.
The cable must be straight (not cross): 1<->1 , 2<->2, 3<->3, 7<->7


Now the worst part: I haven't neither ASM nor LOAD commands on my disks :-/

Any idea?
 
I just tried transfering a file from my Osborne 1 with mdm740 to a DOS based machine runnning qmodem. It worked fine. I had some trouble with a windows 7 running hyperterm because the xmodem protocol just wouldn't sink in checksum or CRC. I tried the dos machine with qmodem that has "relaxed" xmodem and it worked fine. Of course 1200 baud is the max. One good thing is that I didn't need a null modem cable between them. Send me a PM and I'll send you a copy of the disk. I'm pretty sure it's SD even though my Osborne has the DD conversion. I wrote the Osborne disk using IMD which said it's SS SD.
 
I just tried transfering a file from my Osborne 1 with mdm740 to a DOS based machine runnning qmodem. It worked fine. I had some trouble with a windows 7 running hyperterm because the xmodem protocol just wouldn't sink in checksum or CRC. I tried the dos machine with qmodem that has "relaxed" xmodem and it worked fine. Of course 1200 baud is the max. One good thing is that I didn't need a null modem cable between them. Send me a PM and I'll send you a copy of the disk. I'm pretty sure it's SD even though my Osborne has the DD conversion. I wrote the Osborne disk using IMD which said it's SS SD.

Thank you, I write you by PM.
Disk must be SD, of course, or my Osborne won't read.

cheers,
Giovi
 
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After some tests, some help by Larry and almost an afternoon, I succesfully transferred an ASCII (asm source) file from PC to Osborne.
The cable must be straight (not cross): 1<->1 , 2<->2, 3<->3, 7<->7


Now the worst part: I haven't neither ASM nor LOAD commands on my disks :-/

Any idea?

If you have any language that would be a start, do you have mbasic, or any basic? It would be trivial to write load in basic. If you have a language post what it is and we'll start from there.

If not then I can see about digging out my PC that does FM (sd) and mailing you a disk or two with stuff on it. The big part is crossing my fingers and hoping I can boot it up and have it work.


Randy
 
If you have any language that would be a start, do you have mbasic, or any basic? It would be trivial to write load in basic. If you have a language post what it is and we'll start from there.

If not then I can see about digging out my PC that does FM (sd) and mailing you a disk or two with stuff on it. The big part is crossing my fingers and hoping I can boot it up and have it work.


Randy


Well, the only language I have is Turbo Pascal (2 disks). Would it help?
Giovi
 
Yes, it is in the FOG disks:

Copyright (1986) by First Osborne Group (FOG)

Filename CRC Description
-FOG/CPM.126: MDM740 - CP/M communications software
//CPM126.DOC: An overlay for your specific computer is required
/AUG/86 . : See the following disks for overlays
M7FNK .COM: 50 7C MDM740 internal function key editor
M7FNK .DOC: B2 EE Instructions for using M7FNK
M7LIB .COM: 12 AE MDM740 dialing library number editor
M7LIB .DOC: 27 D9 Instructions for using M7LIB
M7NM-1 .AQM: A3 17 Phone number overlay for MDM712 or earlier
M7NM-6 .ASM: 39 54 Phone number overlay for MDM740
M7RV-7 .AQM: 76 86 Racal Vadic VA2121PA modem dialing overlay
MDM740 .COM: D6 7E Uninstalled MDM740 distribution version
MDM740 .DOC: 27 5F Documentation and instructions
MDM740 .INF: F2 BC Description of features
MDMLNK .COM: BD A5 Self prompting program for installing overlays
MDMLNK .DOC: 7E 47 on MDM7, MEX, or IMP
FOG LIBRARY DISK

Copyright (1986) by First Osborne Group (FOG)

Filename CRC Description
-FOG/CPM.127: Overlays for MDM740 to adapt various computers
//CPM127.DOC: This disk is one in a series that supplements
/AUG/86 . : the MDM740 distribution files on FOG-CPM.126
M7A3-1 .AQM: A3 78 Apple /// softcard w/RS232 drivers
M7AC+3 .AQM: 7F 28 Apple-Cat // ALS CP/M card. CP/M+ or CPM2.2
M7AC-1 .AQM: 8C 18 Apple-Cat // (Vanilla flavored)
M7AD-1 .AQM: AF 29 ADDS Multivision
M7ADAM .AQM: 96 E0 Coleco Adam
M7AJ-1 .AQM: 42 E4 Apple J-Cat with Apple Super Serial card
M7AL-2 .AQM: A7 16 Altos Series 5
M7AP-6 .AQM: 94 06 Apple // with ALS, CCS 7710, SSM, CPS, Versacard
M7AQ-6 .AQM: 01 F7 Apple // w/6 MHz PCPI Applicard
M7AX-2 .AQM: AF 29 Actrix
M7CD-1 .AQM: A0 F7 Cromemco CDOS at port 50
M7CI-1 .AQM: 58 43 CCS 2718 S100 board
M7CO-1 .AQM: D6 77 Columbia 1502-2
M7CR-2 .AQM: 9D DE Cromemco
M7CU-1 .AQM: 1B 30 CCS 2820
M7CZ-3 .AQM: F5 4C CCS 2719 with Baud Rate Generator
M7DB-1 .AQM: B2 09 Dynabyte serial port 80H
M7DM-1 .AQM: D7 BC Dynabyte Monarch
FOG LIBRARY DISK

Copyright (1986) by First Osborne Group (FOG)

Filename CRC Description
-FOG/CPM.128: Overlays for MDM740 to adapt various computers
//CPM128.DOC: This disk is one in a series that supplements
/AUG/86 . : the MDM740 distribution files on FOG-CPM.126
M7DP-3 .AQM: 08 0D Datapoint 1650
M7DU-1 .AQM: F7 FB Durango series computers
M7EG-2 .AQM: 5D 28 Eagle IIE-2
M7EP-2 .AQM: E5 C1 Epson QX-10
M7FA-2 .AQM: 13 3F Franklin ACE w/dual interface card
M7GP-1 .AQM: 08 86 General purpose - based on 8251 I/O
M7H8-7 .AQM: F8 09 Heath/Zenith H89 or Z90
M7HP-1 .AQM: B3 C2 Hewlett Packard 125 series 100
M7HZ-1 .AQM: 91 7C Heath/Zenith H/Z 100/110 series
M7IM-2 .AQM: 4B 66 IMS computers
M7IN-2 .AQM: AA 8C CompuPro Interfacer 3 or 4
M7IO-1 .AQM: BF 39 Intersystems MIO board at 80H
M7JC-2 .AQM: 5A 04 Apple Super Serial card w/Novation J-cat
M7KP-2 .AQM: E5 69 Kaypro II (7/8 data, even/odd)
M7LB-2 .AQM: D0 92 Ampro Little Board series 100
M7LBD+ .AQM: 93 5F Ampro Little Board (even/odd parity version)
M7LO-2 .AQM: D0 7B Lobo Max-80
M7M4-1 .AQM: D5 A9 TRS-80 Model 4
M7MD-2 .AQM: 0F E1 Morrow Micro Decision MD3
FOG LIBRARY DISK

Copyright (1986) by First Osborne Group (FOG)

Filename CRC Description
-FOG/CPM.129: Overlays for MDM740 to adapt various computers
//CPM129.DOC: This disk is one in a series that supplements
/AUG/86 . : the MDM740 distribution files on FOG-CPM.126
M7-PBM .AQM: 08 0D Performance Business Machine
M7NA-1 .AQM: A8 22 North Star Advantage
M7NC-1 .AQM: 06 FB NCR Decision Mate V
M7NE-1 .AQM: D6 B9 NEC PC-8001
M7NH-2 .AQM: C4 78 North Star Horizon
M7NT-1 .AQM: 4C B0 Northern Telecom computer
M7OA-2 .AQM: 21 B3 Otrona Attache
M7OD-5 .AQM: DF 2F Osborne 1 w/Comm-Pac or CTS Datacomm modem
M7OS-2 .AQM: BA 54 Osborne 1 using RS232 port only
M7OV-1 .AQM: A8 21 Osborne Vixen
M7OX-1 .AQM: 4F 31 Osborne Executive
M7P1-1 .AQM: B9 22 PMC Micromate
M7PC-1 .AQM: 08 59 IBM PC with Baby Blue Z80 card
M7PM-2 .AQM: 0B 48 PMMI 103 S-100 modem
M7PP-4 .AQM: 3F 51 Pied Piper
M7PT-1 .AQM: 3C D2 Processor Technology SOL
M7QX@3 .AQM: 22 94 Epson QX-10 with VALDOCS
M7QY-1 .AQM: F0 F4 Quay computers
FOG LIBRARY DISK

Copyright (1986) by First Osborne Group (FOG)

Filename CRC Description
-FOG/CPM.130: Overlays for MDM740 to adapt various computers
//CPM130.DOC: This disk is one in a series that supplements
/AUG/86 . : the MDM740 distribution files on FOG-CPM.126
M7R1-3 .AQM: BD 03 TRS-80 Model I w/Omikron Mapper
M7R2-2 .AQM: BB 0D TRS-80 Model II/12 w/Pickles & Trout CP/M
M7R3-1 .AQM: BA 9F TRS-80 Model III w/Omikron or Model 4 w/CPM 2.2
M7R4+1 .AQM: AF 2F TRS-80 Model 4 with Radio Shack CPM+
M7R4-4 .AQM: 94 63 TRS-80 Model 4 w/Montezuma Micro CP/M 2.2
M7S1-1 .AQM: D6 CB Sanyo MBC-1100
M7SB-1 .AQM: CC 23 Intertec Compustar/Superbrain
M7SY-3 .AQM: 81 7B Sanyo MBC-1000 (requires hardware modifications)
M7TK-1 .AQM: 98 39 Teletek SystemMaster
M7TS-2 .AQM: 58 02 Toshiba EW-100/T-100/T-250/T-200
M7TV-9 .AQM: BA 14 Televideo TS-802/TS-803/TPC-1
M7TV-9 .DQC: C6 7D Notes on Televideo printer enabling
M7US-3 .AQM: B6 E8 US Robotics S-100
M7VG-1 .AQM: AC 35 Vector Graphics 3 and 4
M7VI-2 .AQM: 02 87 Visual 1050
M7VT-4 .AQM: F8 56 DEC VT180, Rainbow, Robin, and DECmateII w/ CP/M
M7XE-1 .AQM: 99 20 Xerox 820 and 820 II
M7ZB-4 .AQM: AB F0 Zorba
M7ZX-3 .AQM: 41 6B Zobex S-100
FOG LIBRARY DISK

Copyright (1986) by First Osborne Group (FOG)

Filename CRC Description

-FOG/CPM.131: Source code for MDM740 in 8080 assembler.
//CPM127.DOC: This disk is one in a series that supplements
/AUG/86 . : the MDM740 distribution files on FOG-CPM.126
NOTE: This disk is NOT required to configure or
MDM740 .ASM: 03 40 use MDM740 with your computer. It is supplied
as reference.
FOG LIBRARY DISK


http://www.znode51.de/fog/filelist.htm


When you unarc FOG12?.ARC you will get the FOG12?.LBR file. Then NULU152 or whatever Library Utility will access the files.


Larry
 
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You need to locate an Osborne specific copy of Ascom software and one for the XT. Ascom allows you to transfer files through the serial ports of two computers with incompatible disk formats.
 
You need to locate an Osborne specific copy of Ascom software and one for the XT. Ascom allows you to transfer files through the serial ports of two computers with incompatible disk formats.

My problem is to transfer the software to the Osborne: mine is SSSD so I can't make any disk using 22disk and an XT.
Fortunately, both phogren and ldkraemer (Larry) sent me a floppy with some useful software. This way I think I will solve easily.

@phogren: the brazilian custom received your parcel, now it's just a matter of time. Sometimes it takes few days to be processed, sometimes few months... hoping it will be the first option ;-)

----->> UPDATE: Already processed by custom, I think It will arrive here monday or tuesday.


BTW: In the past I succesfully extracted files from the .IMD and/or .TD0 disk images I got from the web, but I don't remember how. Any clue about that? I don't remember how I did...

--Giovi
 
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Giovi,
To successfully extract files from a .IMD and/or .TD0 disk image I use cpmtools & libdsk. It's about the easiest way I know, other than actually creating
a real floppy and doing it on a CP/M machine.

You will need the proper definition for your CP/M Disk Parameter Block for cpmtools & libdsk.


Larry
 
I looked up the Osborne tech manual and realized how bad the design was:

The floppies get power over the data cable - That's +5 and +12. So to swap drives you would have to make a modified 34 pin cable. That is to say the +5 and +12 volt lines cut or at least just left out of drive connector and those lines soldered to a standard floppy power cable.

The I/O is memory mapped in bank switched memory so any I/O requires calls to common memory where the I/O port is swapped in before it is read or written to then memory is swapped back to TPA bank.

Both a pain in the ass and a fantastic way to really slow down I/O.

I haven't had time to pull out my Turbo Pascal to write a load program. It would probably be easier to create disks with software on it and mail it to you.

I know that customs would slow it down but you would get more.

Let my know if you have any trouble with the modem software sent to you - If so I will just make a small stack of useful disks to send you.
 
Giovi,
To successfully extract files from a .IMD and/or .TD0 disk image I use cpmtools & libdsk. It's about the easiest way I know, other than actually creating
a real floppy and doing it on a CP/M machine.

You will need the proper definition for your CP/M Disk Parameter Block for cpmtools & libdsk.


Larry

Now it makes sense what you wrote me in a past email, I didn't know cpmtools. I will take a look, thank you.
BTW still a mystery how did I extract files from image disks in the past... I'm quite sure I didn't use cpmtools...
 
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