Announcement

Collapse

Forum etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


"PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
See more
See less

Kaypro CP/M versions

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Kaypro CP/M versions

    I have been rebuilding a K4/83 and have progressed to the point that it powers on, boots, resets, sees and actuates all the drives and keyboard keys and displays characters on the screen. The board is a PC81-240, the character ROM is 81-146 and the BIOS ROM is 81-232.

    The K4 had been modified with an Advent add-on co-processor board - which was broken - and I was suspect of the BIOS ROM contents, so in the diagnostic phase I erased and re-flashed the BIOS EPROM, a Hitachi 2732. My boot disk is one left over from a K II and so when the machine boots it identifies CP/M 2.2 Kaypro II. Obviously the next step is to find the right version of Kaypro CP/M for use with the double-sided drives.

    The question is: Which one is the right one? Dunfield's site has images of Kaypro CP/M disks for Kaypro 4 and for 3/83. There may be another repository and/or another version of the OS that would be a better fit. Does anyone have a suggestion about how to proceed?

    Thanks for your replies,

    -CH-

    #2
    According to Kaypro technical documentation, CP/M 2.2F should work with the 81-232A BIOS ROM.
    - Doug

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for your reply.

      Found these at http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kaypro/: K4836765.td0 and K4836768.td0.

      May I ask further: Is .td0 a Teledisk format? Do you have any idea what is the difference between the two?

      Thanks again,

      -CH-

      Comment


        #4
        I'm also not sure what the difference is between those two. They are TeleDisk format diskette images, compressed. I'm not familiar with tools to extract those and make real diskette images.
        - Doug

        Comment


          #5
          Teledisk was a Sydex product. It runs under MS-DOS. Chuck(G) can tell you more about it.

          (I have a copy already)

          Thanks again for your help.

          -CH-

          Comment


            #6
            Looks like there are some errors with K4836765

            TD 1.4 5.25 LD FM S-step, 2 sides ADV
            07/0: CRC error (bad sector)
            14/0: CRC error (bad sector)
            16/0: CRC error (bad sector)
            27/0: CRC error (bad sector)
            28/0: CRC error (bad sector)
            34/0: CRC error (bad sector)
            35/0: CRC error (bad sector)
            36/0: CRC error (bad sector)
            37/0: CRC error (bad sector)
            40/0: CRC error (bad sector)
            81 tracks, 801 sectors converted.


            cpmls -f kpii -D K4836765.RAW
            Name Bytes Recs Attr update create
            ------------ ------ ------ ---- ----------------- -----------------
            ASM .COM 8K 64
            BASICLIB.REL 41K 324
            BAUD .COM 1K 6
            CONFIG .COM 12K 89
            COPY .COM 8K 60
            DDT .COM 5K 38
            DPLAY .BAS 1K 4
            DUMP .ASM 5K 33
            DUMP .COM 1K 4
            ED .COM 7K 52
            FAC .BAS 1K 2
            LOAD .COM 2K 14
            MOVCPM .COM 10K 76
            OVERLAYB.COM 7K 54
            PIP .COM 8K 58
            SBASIC .COM 26K 204
            SSCOPY .COM 8K 60
            STAT .COM 6K 41
            SUBMIT .COM 2K 10
            SYSGEN .COM 1K 8
            TERM .COM 1K 6
            USERLIB .REL 1K 6
            XAMN .BAS 20K 154
            XSUB .COM 1K 6
            24 Files occupying 98K, 95K Free.


            K4836768:
            TD 1.4 5.25 LD FM S-step, 2 sides ADV
            40/0: CRC error (bad sector)
            81 tracks, 801 sectors converted.

            cpmls -f kpii -D K4836768.RAW
            Name Bytes Recs Attr update create
            ------------ ------ ------ ---- ----------------- -----------------
            ASM .COM 8K 64
            BASICLIB.REL 41K 324
            BAUD .COM 1K 6
            CONFIG .COM 12K 89
            COPY .COM 8K 60
            DDT .COM 5K 38
            DPLAY .BAS 1K 4
            DUMP .ASM 5K 33
            DUMP .COM 1K 4
            ED .COM 7K 52
            FAC .BAS 1K 2
            LOAD .COM 2K 14
            MOVCPM .COM 10K 76
            OVERLAYB.COM 7K 54
            PIP .COM 8K 58
            SBASIC .COM 26K 204
            SSCOPY .COM 8K 60
            STAT .COM 6K 41
            SUBMIT .COM 2K 10
            SYSGEN .COM 1K 8
            TERM .COM 1K 6
            USERLIB .REL 1K 6
            XAMN .BAS 20K 154
            XSUB .COM 1K 6
            24 Files occupying 98K, 95K Free.


            Larry
            Last edited by ldkraemer; April 19, 2018, 02:56 AM. Reason: typo

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks for pointing that out.

              Maybe stick to Dunfield's images instead?

              -CH-

              Comment


                #8
                Some of the Kaypros I have acquired also had software distribution disks (or copies thereof) as part of the deal.

                Today I found a Kaypro CP/M master and also a working disk labeled "F" and tried booting the K4/83 from each of those. The drive accepts the disk and begins to boot but hangs after displaying a message about Kaypro 63K CP/M version 2.2F. I never get to an A: prompt.

                The drive is a Tandon TM-100-2A, dated 1984, which has an IBM faceplate but otherwise is identical to all other TM-100-2As. It was properly identified (option shunt 1E, pins 1-14 and 2-13 for drive A) as Kaypro recommends but does not have a terminating resistor, though drive B: does.

                I removed drive A: and swapped the drive identification jumpers to Drive B: (also a TM-100-2A, which became the only drive in the system, A:, with termination). I attempted the boot once again with the same results: no A: prompt, only the message:

                KAYPRO 63K CP/M Version 2.2F

                Yesterday I was successful in booting from an earlier version of Kaypro CP/M. In the same session I also created a copy of the master disk using FORMAT and SYSGEN and PIP. Today I inserted that disk into the modified system and it immediately booted to an A: prompt. It also displayed the message:

                KAYPRO II
                64K CP/M v 2.2

                Something is not aligned properly here but I don't know what. It looks like the disk I'm trying to boot from is expecting a different configuration; maybe the board, maybe the BIOS. I'm at the limits of my knowledge, however.

                Any suggestions? Thanks.

                -CH-

                Comment


                  #9
                  It appears that the Maslin files for K4836565.TD0 (for both drives) have the same CRC problems.

                  I extracted all the files in K4836765.RAW and K4836768.RAW, and did a binary compare. There are two files
                  that have one byte differences. COPY.COM and BASICLIB.REL. I've found BASICLIB.REL in another
                  Image and the K4836768.TD0 file is correct. (The K4836765.TD0 has a byte that is incorrect.)

                  Those compares are attached.

                  I've copied both files from the k*68 subdirectory to my k*65 subdirectory.
                  That should make the k*65 image correct again.


                  kay4-1.jpg kay4-2.jpg

                  Larry
                  Last edited by ldkraemer; April 19, 2018, 02:56 AM. Reason: typo

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I've got a pretty good stash of Kaypro samples. Specifically, which one are your looking for? (Use one of the 22Disk types if you're not certain).

                    In particular, I've got a 400-500 Kaypro customer floppies that are due to hit the trash bin.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Chuck,
                      It's the Kaypro 4 Image name K4836765.TD0 from the Maslin ZIP file. There are errors when I copy it to a
                      floppy. I finally formatted the floppy with 22DISK and tried copying the .TDO image again. After a couple of
                      times I'm sure I have a good image as I read it back with Teledisk and it reads fine. (That was with a Fresh
                      Floppy I bought a couple of years ago.)

                      So, now I want to extract at the files using cpmtools and do another binary compare.

                      Thanks.

                      Larry
                      Last edited by ldkraemer; April 19, 2018, 02:54 AM. Reason: typo

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I can't find a file K4836565.TD0 in any of the Maslin archives. Typo?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Tor,
                          Yes, somehow I had it wrong. I was lucky enough to be able to edit the previous posts
                          for K4836765 and K4836768.

                          Thanks.

                          Larry

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Chuck(G) View Post
                            I've got a pretty good stash of Kaypro samples. Specifically, which one are your looking for? (Use one of the 22Disk types if you're not certain).

                            In particular, I've got a 400-500 Kaypro customer floppies that are due to hit the trash bin.
                            Hello Chuck, do you still have those diskettes? I too have a Kaypro 4/83 and thus far have not been able to find a matching CP/M Master. It seems as if there are not any properly dumped versions floating around. I also have a Kaypro 4/84 Plus 88 it would nice to have the original disks as well, but at least I have working images for that.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Formulator View Post
                              Hello Chuck, do you still have those diskettes? I too have a Kaypro 4/83 and thus far have not been able to find a matching CP/M Master. It seems as if there are not any properly dumped versions floating around. I also have a Kaypro 4/84 Plus 88 it would nice to have the original disks as well, but at least I have working images for that.
                              Do you have the CP/M-86 images?

                              Also would you happen to have any way to read the PAL on the Z80 daughterboard?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X