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PCMCIA ATA Drive Cross-Platform Question

J

JPOESQ

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Joined
Jun 10, 2010
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Location
Sacramento, CA
I am trying to move files between a current Windows 7 computer and a vintage Gateway Handbook 486 using a CF card in a PCMCIA adapter. This is what I am encountering:

1. Install the PCMCIA/CF card in the Gateway Handbook.
2. Initialize the card using ATAINIT and format.
3. Copy files from hard drive to CF; files copy and can read/write.
4. Move PCMCIA/CF card to Windows 7 computer.
5. Windows 7 computer says that PCMCIA/CF is not formatted and cannot be read.
6. Format PCMCIA/CF in Windows 7 computer as FAT.
7. Move PCMCIA/CF card to Gateway Handbook.
8. Repeat Step 3.
9. Repeat Step 4, and, again, Windows 7 says that the card is not formatted.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

-John
 
JPOESQ:

I move files around all the time between a 486, 1000SX, and my W7 box with no problems using 720 KB floppy's. However, I'm not using a CF card. I would check your W7 host for an updated driver.
 
I'm having the same problem trying to move files between a Zeos DOS 5 machine and an XP box with a 1 MB PCMCIA SRAM card.

Formatted on the Zeos, the PC reports the card is "Raw" - Presumably that means unformatted.
Formatted on the XP machine (with FAT), the Zeos gives an "Abort, Fail, Retry" error.

The card will successfully format, read, & write the card in both machines; the formats appear incompatible. I thought FAT16 was FAT16, but apparently not...

Suggestions/comment welcome.

thanks, Jack
 
I am going to take a wild guess here, based on some googling, and say that the problem may be the partition type flag on the device.

FAT can be FAT12, FAT16 (actually two variants) or FAT32. Each of these has its own partition type. It may be that the format of the device is correct but the partition type is not being set so that the other OS can understand what it is. It might be worth seeing what FDISK reports this to be.

One reference suggests that some Windows versions don't mind this flag too carefully but just try to read the device anyway.

I would try specifying FAT12 as the format for the card in Windows, if you can. I believe the flash reader in the old Audrey net appliance would not read FAT16 cards, for instance, and maybe that's true of some other older readers.

Apparently standard DOS floppies have always been FAT12 so that's probably why there's no confusion with them.

I suspect this problem came about because PC card flash never became a really standard storage device so the drivers are also not very standard.
 
Mark - Thanks for the ideas. I suspect you're right - Otherwise, why would they
make a "DOS 5 compatible" with a proprietary file format? Does'nt make sense.

I need to make port adapters to get files (FDISK) aboard the Zeos, but that needs
doing anyway...

Unless there's a way to trick Windows into reading the PCMCIA card as a floppy.
Let's see what Gurgle has to say ...

Thanks again,

Jack
 
Win7 will not handle partitioned CF cards--unless said card is attached via an ATA-to-CF adapter. Otherwise, Win7 expects a non-partitioned, formatted volume.

Obviously, your Handbook is treating the CF as an ATA hard drive.

If you've got a PATA port on your Zeos, you can get a SATA/PATA-to-CF adapter pretty cheap and then your setup should work fine.
 
All,

Thanks for the excellent information. I'm going to try the CF in one of my Thinkpad Ultrabays using a CF/IDE adapter. Even though CF's are an IDE platform, it may be that the Windows 7 PCMCIA drivers are thinking flash memory rather than an IDE drivet at this day and age. I will try it this weekend and report back.

-John
 
JPOESQ said:
Thanks for the excellent information. I'm going to try the CF in one of my Thinkpad Ultrabays using a CF/IDE adapter. Even though CF's are an IDE platform, it may be that the Windows 7 PCMCIA drivers are thinking flash memory rather than an IDE drivet at this day and age. I will try it this weekend and report back.
Click to expand...

I can tell you that's definitely true. My camera uses a CF card and it formats it to a simple FAT volume; no partitions.
 
> Apparently standard DOS floppies have always been FAT12

I bet you've put your finger on it - The DOS 5 Zeos uses the PCMCIA
cards as A: & B: drives. Very likely FAT12.

XP reads floppies OK, of course, but not the cards... So how to convince
XP to see the card reader as FAT12...?

Jack
 
"FAT is still the normal file system for removable media (with the exception of CDs and DVDs), with FAT12 used on floppies, and FAT16 or FAT32 on most other removable media (such as flash memory cards for digital cameras and USB flash drives). Some removable media are not yet large enough to benefit from FAT32; and FAT16 is used on these drives for reasons of compatibility and size overhead, although some larger flash drives, like SDHC, do make use of it."

... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table

Since the DOS 5 Zeos prepares the cards with FORMAT.COM, uses them for
A: & B: drives, & since that's what DOS expects to find on those drives, it
seems a good bet they're FAT12.

In principle, a PC card reader could read FAT12 as easily as FAT 16/32 - That
it does'nt could be a firmware or a driver issue...

Chuck - No PATA port, darn it. It's a DOS 5 box. It does have a parallel port,
and a serial port, with unobtainable proprietary connectors.

Plan B is to fab a serial port connector, and hope the serial com protocol
is'nt so non-standard that I can't figure it out. Anyone know where I can
get a small double-sided .024" PC board? ;)

Jack
 
Can the handbook not read FAT16? Format the CF card on the Win7 box, put your files on it, then put it in the adapter and into the handbook.

I didn't read the entire thread, but I don't see why that wouldn't work. If it absolutely must be FAT12 I'm sure that either:
- Win7 will read/write it fine (it should, as it can for floppies)
- You can find a program or way to get it to read it fine
- You could make a shared partition or separate drive with FAT16, put your files form Win7 to that, then boot to DOS and transfer from there to the CF.
 
Raven said:
Can the handbook not read FAT16? Format the CF card on the Win7 box, put your files on it, then put it in the adapter and into the handbook..
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell, ATAINIT treats the CF as a hard drive and writes a partition table to it. Win7 via the CF card-reader interface expects the CF to be a single unified logical volume, not a partitioned one. In other words, the first 512 bytes contain a DPB for the remainder of the drive (i.e. a floppy boot sector), not a partition table.

Putting the CF on an ATA-to-CF adapter on the Win7 system should solve that issue, as that way, Win7 would treat it as a partition-able hard drive.
 
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