Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
See more
See less

Can't boot OmniBook 800CT from CF card in IDE bay

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Can't boot OmniBook 800CT from CF card in IDE bay

    I'm working on restoring an OmniBook 800CT. I intend for this to be my DOS/Windows 3.1/Windows 95 gaming machine.

    One of the first things I need to do is replace the hard drive (which is failing), with something solid state. The two options I'm aware of is either a CF card with an CF to IDE adapter, or an actual IDE SSD.

    My first choice is the CF card due to reasons I'll leave out to shorten this post.

    I'm having trouble getting this laptop to boot with a CF card.

    With no partitions present on the card, the computer boots to a Windows 95 dos boot floppy with no problem.

    After creating a partition (I've tried 1.9GB, 4GB, and 32GB), the computer will not boot. It will not boot from the floppy. The computer begins reading from the floppy drive to boot DOS, and then just sits there crashed. It will also not boot from the CF even if I've formatted it and put DOS on it (by using another PC).

    So far I've been trying to use a 32GB CF, because I read a forum post where someone had installed a 32GB IDE SSD successfully in this model of laptop, and figured if it could recognize and boot that, then the size should be compatible.

    I also have a 2GB CF from an old Cisco router. Results are slightly different with this card. As long as I install DOS 6.22 it works and boots fine. As soon as I upgrade the dos to "win95 dos", it can no longer boot. Either by doing a "SYS A: C:" with a 95 boot diskette, or by windows doing it by itself during the Windows 95 install process. I'm using version B which is what the laptop originally came with.

    I've tried a standard Windows 95 boot disk, and the OmniBook 800CT recovery boot disk, with same results.

    I've tried several other CF cards, including a SanDisk Extreme 32GB (UDMA7), a regular SanDisk 32gb, and two SanDisk 8GB cards, and a Transcend "133x" 32GB card.

    I had a dual-slot adapter, but found out the laptop will not support the secondary drive, so just for compatibility I even swapped it out with a single-slot only CF-IDE adapter.

    It may also be helpful to mention that with the original hard drive booted up to windows 95, the laptop recognizes the CF card perfectly, and reads and writes from it installed in a CF to PCMCIA adapter. No, I can't get it to boot from the PCMCIA slot. That might be an alternative, as I hear the PCMCIA slot might actually be faster than the IDE interface, if it could be made to boot from it. I'd prefer to leave the slot free though.

    I'm out of ideas! Maybe it's a simple mistake, or maybe there's some CF card incompatibility issue I just don't know about. Has anybody put a CF card in an OmniBook 800CT?

    Thanks,

    -Stu

    #2
    Originally posted by Stu View Post
    With no partitions present on the card, the computer boots to a Windows 95 dos boot floppy with no problem.

    After creating a partition (I've tried 1.9GB, 4GB, and 32GB), the computer will not boot. It will not boot from the floppy. The computer begins reading from the floppy drive to boot DOS, and then just sits there crashed. It will also not boot from the CF even if I've formatted it and put DOS on it (by using another PC)

    [...]

    I'm out of ideas! Maybe it's a simple mistake, or maybe there's some CF card incompatibility issue I just don't know about. Has anybody put a CF card in an OmniBook 800CT?
    Hi Stu!

    I'm late with my answer, but I encountered the same problem.
    Does DOS hang after "Starting MS-DOS..."?
    Then it's related to the CF card's disk geometry (cylinders, heads, sectors).
    You can workaround that, by installing a Disk Drive Overlay (DDO). Either Ontrack Disk Manager or EZ-Drive. See my thread at https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/b...y.php?id=16538.
    I was also successful by formatting the CF card with Rufus. This will make the card FAT32 and install a basic FreeDOS kernel.
    +++ BTTR Software +++
    Home page: https://www.bttr-software.de/
    DOS ain't dead: https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/

    Comment


      #3
      I've had little to no luck using the dual CF adapters. Get a single CF adapter and try that with your CF's. I've also used M.2 to IDE adapters for larger HDD replacements. Don't forget to use the BIOS to define the proper settings for your CF card.
      Crazy old guy with a basement full of Pentium 1 laptops and parts

      Comment


        #4
        ... or ditch all that CF nonsense and get a DOM -- it's headache free hardware.
        PM me if you're looking for 3" or 5" floppy disks. EMail For everything else, Take Another Step

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by DeltaDon View Post
          I've had little to no luck using the dual CF adapters. Get a single CF adapter and try that with your CF's. I've also used M.2 to IDE adapters for larger HDD replacements.
          These adapters don't have any "intelligence" AFAIK, so problems can only be "electrical".

          Originally posted by DeltaDon View Post
          Don't forget to use the BIOS to define the proper settings for your CF card.
          You can't for the 800CT. It just does autodetect or nothing.
          +++ BTTR Software +++
          Home page: https://www.bttr-software.de/
          DOS ain't dead: https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Stone View Post
            ... or ditch all that CF nonsense and get a DOM -- it's headache free hardware.
            How do I put a DOM to a laptop? I only found modules for Thin Clients/PCs.
            +++ BTTR Software +++
            Home page: https://www.bttr-software.de/
            DOS ain't dead: https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/

            Comment


              #7
              44 pin DOMs are *not* the same animals as desktop IDE DOMs, they are not the droids you’re looking for. The most common style doesn’t fit a standard laptop.

              Look for a laptop PATA-SD adapter if you want a less cranky alternative to CF. I’ve had great luck with them and they cost under $10.
              My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs Also: Blogspot

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Eudimorphodon View Post
                Look for a laptop PATA-SD adapter if you want a less cranky alternative to CF. I’ve had great luck with them and they cost under $10.
                Could you post a link, some pics, or a description of your adapter and your SD card(s), please?
                I've already read a lot about shabby non-working China-stuff.
                +++ BTTR Software +++
                Home page: https://www.bttr-software.de/
                DOS ain't dead: https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/

                Comment


                  #9
                  This is the exact Amazon link for the adapter I've bought twice. Visually identical adapters are as cheap as $8 BIN on eBay, my guess is they're all churned out of the same factory, I just used Prime because, you know, easy.

                  As to SD cards, I've tried both SanDisk and Samsung 64GB cards and some old "Generic" store-brand 2GB cards. On machines fast enough for it to make a difference the newer cards have significantly better write speed but they all work fine.
                  My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs Also: Blogspot

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I can't speak for your laptop of course, but I used a CF card at one time or another in all of my old time boxes. The last one was a 2 GB CF in a 486DX/66, and the BIOS was able to find it. One thing that I've learned about the CF cards is that sometimes the manufacturer leaves something or another on the drive. Before you run your install routine try 'FDISK /MBR'. Good luck.
                    Surely not everyone was Kung-Fu fighting

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I am kind of concerned myself there's some other confounding issue at play here, be it BIOS compatibility or what, that switching technologies might not necessarily help.

                      Here's an old doc about putting Linux on one of those machines that says that they do have an 8.4GB BIOS limit. There's also a claim in there that they *might* have some cable select weirdness?
                      My Retro-computing YouTube Channel (updates... eventually?): Paleozoic PCs Also: Blogspot

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by bttr View Post
                        These adapters don't have any "intelligence" AFAIK, so problems can only be "electrical".



                        You can't for the 800CT. It just does autodetect or nothing.

                        Good to know that the 800CT does only auto detect. Regarding the dual CF's, you are correct it is electrical and not worth the time to figure out the problem when you can just purchase a single CF adapter and bypass the problem. Perhaps one day when I have more spare time than present I'd try to figure out the problem, but not today. I have a bunch of Pent1 laptops that top out a 8.1GB HDD's or smaller, unless doing an overlay, and finding old spinning drives of that size has become too expensive to pursue these days. There's also SD adapters and M2 adapters that I've used at various times for various projects. Recently, I used two 64GB M2 drives as a raid array in a Clevo P4 laptop using twin adapters so as to not use up one of my remaining 150GB IDE HDD's.

                        M.2 adapter: https://www.amazon.com/NGFF-SATA-44-...9033193&sr=8-4
                        Crazy old guy with a basement full of Pentium 1 laptops and parts

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X