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The lonely Mac

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    The lonely Mac

    I have multiples of several vendors' machines but only one Apple: a Macintosh Quadra 650. I bought this years ago from a supplier who was moving to more powerful equipment. Over time I added software and peripherals - a Style Writer, for example, and Claris Works - but never really used it for anything. It sat on a desk in a spare bedroom.

    Last year with time on my hands I decided to fire it up again and see how it was doing. That's when I learned how to change the backup battery. While I was in there I added more RAM and replaced a sticky FD that didn't want to eject a disk.

    I also wanted to add a way to communicate with the outside world. Having a Hayes 9600 modem I got some Hayes faxmodem software but shelved the installation for a later date as there were some adapters missing and the software would not install without the Hayes connected.

    Last week while searching for something else I happened to see a Supra fax modem for sale on eBay and purchased it. Last night I tried to install it, and that's the point of this post.

    The Supra came with two utilities, one for faxes, one for modem terminal. Each was distributed on 2 3.5-inch disks. Both installations failed but only after copying several files successfully. The error messages said there was a problem with the disk and allowed me to abort. I tried again this morning and each failed at the same place the second time and with the same message.

    Well, what about the Hayes software, you ask? Yup, tried that two times as well after the Supra software failed. It too failed, but with a different error message, a "Type 1 disk error" message. Same message at the same place both attempts.

    I don't know enough about Macs to know whether I have bad disks, a bad floppy drive or a bigger problem somewhere else in the system. Internet research has been fruitless so I guess I'll have to pester you guys.

    Thanks for any help you can give.

    -CH-

    #2
    Best sanity check I find to see if a drive is bad is throw a blank floppy in and format it. If it formats you're good. If it fails, open the metal slider and inspect for a circular mark where the head might of rubbed material off the disk. In that case I either clean the drive and hope for the best or search for another one. I have a number of applications here for macs that have at least one bad disk. Worst of the bunch is the 15 disk Macintosh Japanese Language Kit.
    [Need something to waste time on? Click here to visit my YouTube channel CelGenStudios]
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [No time for videos? Click here to visit my Twitter feed @CelGenStudios]

    = Excellent space heater

    Comment


      #3
      just a note if you do clean it dont lift up the head's I just killed a mac floppy doing that as the head's "spring" is a thin strip of sheet metal

      Comment


        #4
        Before you go on and buy cleaning disks maybe check here if someone is selling one or two (can't hurt to have a spare) 3.5 inch drives. The drives are usually cheaper than a cleaning disk and some members are really nice and sell well maintained tested and working units. The cleaning disks usually cost at least like 10 bucks with shipping on ebay and with a bit of bad luck they don't clean well enough, there is a different error or the drive just dies. If you'd be in Cologne germany I'd come over and gift you a 3.5" drive (or 2 for a beer), but to Ohio shipping would cost like 10 times of what its worth.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks to all for their suggestions.

          After two failures I did run a cleaning disk in the drive but it did not make a difference; i.e. I got the same errors in the same places.

          However, this afternoon I took NeXT's advice and formatted an HD floppy disk. The format was successful, so I'm reasonably certain the drive is OK.

          I rummaged through the Finder and found the disk repair utility, which I used to verify and repair each of the offending disks. As far as the utility was concerned everything was as it should be with each of the disks.

          This machine had OS 7.? on it when I bought it, and last year when I upped the memory I also upgraded the OS to 8.1, on the advice of the person who sold me the memory. AFAIK everything is OK; the machine boots, reports OS 8.1, runs apps, etc.

          But on the hypothesis that this could be a DLL-conflict of sorts, I dug out the installation CD and one of my (two) references, OS 8 For Dummies, which was suggested by a troll on one of the Macintosh boards. Hell, I didn't know you had to install PPP; I figured you install the OS you get the works. Apparently Apple is more mix-and-match.

          So with the help of Help and three control panels later (you gotta configure PPP, the modem and TCP/IP) I managed to make the modem call my other line.

          Encouraged by my success I tried re-installing the Supra software, which failed in the same way as before. This time OS 8.1 suggested there was something wrong with the install disk and I should run Disk Repair. I did so, and once again all was as it should be as far as the utility is concerned. You don't know who to believe: Apple or Apple?

          So the Mac knows how to talk to the modem but doesn't have a term program that I can use to send data or faxes. I guess I could dial up an ISP (do any of them still have dial-up?) but I'll keep looking for a term program to install.

          kyodai: If I was in Cologne I would buy you two beers in a heartbeat, and two more for me. Every ten minutes.

          Thanks again,

          -CH-

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by clh333 View Post
            So the Mac knows how to talk to the modem but doesn't have a term program that I can use to send data or faxes. I guess I could dial up an ISP (do any of them still have dial-up?) but I'll keep looking for a term program to install.
            Dialup providers have been on the decline since the turn of the century, but they've been really dropping like flies the past 5-6 years.

            The only prevalent dialup ISP I know of that still exists is AOL. They have a $7 a month dialup plan:

            http://get.aol.com/plans/index.php

            I'm not sure if you need their bloatware client to connect though. I've had an account with them since the mid 90s for "when there isn't anything else" coverage, and I've had mixed luck with being able to dial in without the client vs. with the client. I'm not sure that old AOL clients will even still connect to their service, I think the last Mac 68k client was 3.0.

            Comment


              #7
              There are still some local dial-up lines in Ohio besides AOL...

              https://www.dialup4less.com/ohio.html

              http://www.ohio.net/dial-up

              Prolly more avialable when you search google a bit. I wouldn't shell out additional money if you already have a DSL connection or similar. Look at my off-topic post about how to become your own Dial-up ISP.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by kyodai View Post
                I wouldn't shell out additional money if you already have a DSL connection or similar.
                Thanks for your suggestions.

                I have TWC as my ISP and a cable-modem connection that gets 30 Mb down. The TWC package included cable TV and an IP phone line. The cable modem is a Netgear wireless router / gateway and this computer, an Intel board with i5 running Win7P-64 bit, is connected to it with CAT5 cable. The Win7 has a Winmodem in one of the PCI slots which is connected to the IP phone's modem.

                So my plan was to get the Apple, in room A, connected to the POTS and through that to the IP phone in room B, and through that to this Win7 machine, a strategy I have used with other (Commodore) machines in the past. When needed I can run a little BBS server on the Win7 so now I need a term program for the Apple that can handle the uploads and downloads of data. (A previous failed attempt involved a wireless adapter for the Apple; we won't bother to describe that.)

                In other words, I can get to the Internet from here; I just need to get to here from the Apple.

                Thanks again,

                -CH-

                Comment


                  #9
                  You'd probably do better getting a NuBUS ethernet card. That'll get you on the internet with your existing cable internet.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thank you all for your suggestions.

                    After a lot of Internet search time I made some progress. I found an adapter for the Quadra, a Farallon AAUI RJ45 Ethernet Transceiver that plugs into the Apple Ethernet port, and I found a term program, ZTERM, with a version that is compatible with OS 8.1. I also had the realization that the Claris Works 4 software bundle that I had already installed had a "communications document" that would drive the modem, as does ZTERM.

                    I know there are three NuBus slots and one Processor Direct slot on the Q650 board, but I've never seen a NuBus card and don't know anything about the technology. I thought my first foray into NuBus would be a video card, but again lack of familiarity with the hardware and concerns for compatibility make me hesitant to take the plunge.

                    But I'm a happy camper now that I have a couple of ways to move data in and out of the Mac. Thanks again for your help.

                    -CH-

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I know there are three NuBus slots and one Processor Direct slot on the Q650 board, but I've never seen a NuBus card and don't know anything about the technology.
                      Designed by MIT, adopted by Texas Instruments and used almost exclusively by Apple until the PCI era. There's tons of cards out there. Search around ebay and you can usually find a network card decently priced at $20-$40. Most of the cards out there work natively with the network driver included with the MacOS, else it's readily available online in the various mac driver archives. Don't worry too much about performance. A 10 megabit card will be fine.

                      PDS slots on the other hand can not only vary from CPU to CPU but also model ranges (EG: there's the 68030 PDS in the Macintosh IIci and there's the 68030 LC PDS in the Macintosh LC III). You might want to do some research on that slot before you commit to any new purchases.
                      Last edited by NeXT; February 29, 2016, 08:48 PM.
                      [Need something to waste time on? Click here to visit my YouTube channel CelGenStudios]
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      [No time for videos? Click here to visit my Twitter feed @CelGenStudios]

                      = Excellent space heater

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by NeXT View Post
                        PDS slots on the other hand can not only vary from CPU to CPU but also model ranges
                        Thanks for your reply. I'm finding it necessary to pay very close attention to the nuances when it comes to Apple hardware and software; this works with this but not with that and only if the other is not installed and only for OS version Y. I'm glad to have the contributions of the VCF as a resource, as information is often difficult to obtain.

                        And the names for basic services change with every new iteration: AppleTalk, LocalTalk, EtherTalk, TokenTalk, AppleShare, AppleTalk Phase 2, OpenTransport, OpenTransport PPP. (Did I miss anything?) Apple sometimes suffers from acute cuteness.

                        Not to launch a rant, though; it's an appealing little machine compared to some of the Frankensteins I've built out of PC parts. I've always liked Apple's industrial design sense. The OS is very familiar - only the names are changed to protect the innocent - and an alias is still a shortcut, the command key still functions like the control key, etc. I'm just not very far along the learning curve; down on the bunny slope.

                        I'll get there eventually. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?

                        Thanks again,

                        -CH-

                        Comment


                          #13
                          <pedant>

                          AppleTalk, LocalTalk, EtherTalk, TokenTalk, AppleShare, AppleTalk Phase 2, OpenTransport, OpenTransport PPP
                          These are actually all different things, so the differences are a little more than iterative in most cases.

                          AppleTalk: the general protocol
                          AppleTalk Phase 2: an enhanced AppleTalk with better multiple network/routing support (almost entirely replaced early AppleTalk, so most of the time AppleTalk == AppleTalk Phase 2)
                          LocalTalk: AppleTalk over the serial ports (such as with PhoneNET)
                          EtherTalk: AppleTalk over Ethernet
                          TokenTalk: AppleTalk over token ring
                          OpenTransport: STREAMS implementation of network protocols that was designed to supplant MacTCP
                          OpenTransport PPP: OpenTransport over PPP

                          But I definitely agree it can be dizzying if you're not already steeped in the culture.
                          </pedant>
                          I use my C128 because I am an ornery, stubborn, retro grouch. -- Bob Masse
                          Various projects and oddities: http://oldvcr.blogspot.com/
                          Machine room: http://www.floodgap.com/etc/machines.html

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I stand corrected. And connected: the Farallon 10-Base-T adapter arrived and after a little experimentation, and using my longest CAT5 cable, I was able to connect to the Internet - sorta. I got through the TCP/IP configuration and pointed the Apple to the cable modem / wireless router that is the home DHCP server and gateway to the Internet. I informed the machine to use Ethernet for its connection and before you know it I was seeing a pitch for the latest iPhone at apple.com.

                            Unfortunately there have been a few changes to JAVA in the last twenty years or so and most of my screen was filled with Java errors and exceptions. Which leaves me with three questions:

                            Q1: Is it possible to load a more modern browser onto this OS 8.1 system?

                            Q2: With Ethernet TCP/IP and modem PPP communication enabled do I need AppleTalk enabled still?

                            Q3: Nothing to do with Q1 or Q2, but as the machine loads and I get to see the plain grey Mac desktop, along the bottom appear icons for various utilities and applications - speech, for example. Before the desktop with the pretty scenic picture loads these icons, which are shaped like jigsaw-puzzle pieces, disappear for good. What can I do to make them reappear?

                            Thanks for your assistance.

                            -CH-

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by clh333 View Post
                              Q3: Nothing to do with Q1 or Q2, but as the machine loads and I get to see the plain grey Mac desktop, along the bottom appear icons for various utilities and applications - speech, for example. Before the desktop with the pretty scenic picture loads these icons, which are shaped like jigsaw-puzzle pieces, disappear for good. What can I do to make them reappear?
                              That's the Control Strip. Click on the part of it that remains visible in order to expand it to full size. If it disappears entirely, you can turn it back on in the Control Panel.

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_Strip

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