Forum Rules and Etiquette

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This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.

Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.

Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
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To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
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Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
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Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.

Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.

New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.

Other suggestions
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Anything System 7.5 can do that OS9 can't?

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    Anything System 7.5 can do that OS9 can't?

    I have a G4 Cube that I just set up with OS9.2.2 and got going. Very nice little machine!

    I also have a PowerMac 7200/75 that is pretty complete but I've never really gotten around to playing with. I have some accessories for it (MIDI interfaces, extra SCSI HDD, etc.) but not a huge amount of stuff. I'm waiting on an ADB mouse for it but those seem impossible to come by.

    Am leaning towards just keeping the Cube and selling the PowerMac; it's an interesting piece of hardware but I don't see much need for it. I have very little experience with pre-OSX machines at the moment. Like the title says, is there much I'd be missing out on?

    I may be wrong but I don't think MacOS 8.5 and up can switch into 24-bit memory mode. That might make it hard to run some very early programs written for System 6 and earlier but that's all I can think of.

    Of course, now that I think of it i don't think that 24 bit mode works on PowerMacs anyway so the point is probably moot.


      It seldom has much relevance to everyday retrocomputing, as few of us are privileged to have any need to give someone else their own account on a vintage Mac, but only the last few versions of classic Mac OS have genuinely helpful Multiple User support. I haven't looked it up in decades, but I believe the following unsorted miscellany of statements is probably more often vaguely accurate than not:

      The Multiple Users extension set is included beginning in one of the middle-numbered OS 8 revisions, and may or may not work when manually added to any of various earlier system versions (I'd be surprised if it worked under 7.6 and absolutely flabbergasted if it worked under 7.1). It only became moderately secure under 9.something when they changed the system boot process so a password was still required if you restarted the machine with extensions off. Files on a fixed local drive were never logically secure from other users on the same physical machine; you could use any of various third-party utilities to individually encrypt them, but any user could delete them. I think, starting under 9.x, shenanigans were employed such that users' home folders were somewhat better protected from other local users.

      There was also Sherlock, if that's your idea of a good time.
      the world’s only gsteemso
      agitator-in-chief for the Seattle Retro-Computing Society


        Multiple Users actually appeared with OS 9. It *may* run with 8.6 but I would be surprised if it ran on 8.1, and it will definitely not work with 7.x. Although it evolved from At Ease, which of course does run with System 7, I find Multiple Users rather more seamless.

        The 24-bit memory mode is irrelevant since this is a Power Mac; all pre-OS X Power Macs always run in 32-bit mode. The distinction only matters for 68K systems.

        To the OP's note, actually, yes, there are a few things that work better in System 7 than OS 9. For example, the PPCToolbox (that's Process to Process Communication, not PowerPC) and other apps that depend on remote AppleEvents may have problems in 9.x. 9.1 and up also enforce use of the MMU, which can mess up applications playing fast and loose with where they write in memory. These issues are pretty unusual, though, and OS 9's compatibility with older software is generally considered excellent. I have a 7300 and it's just better in 9.1 because of all the new features in 9 relative to 7 or even 8.

        I'm surprised to hear you're having difficulty sourcing an ADB mouse. A cursory search on eBay turned up oodles. Virtually any ADB mouse will work.

        The Cube is a cute Mac and people love them, but they aren't particularly expandable and even then not without a lot of work. The 7200 has moderate expansion potential because of its PCI slots and lots of ports, but is largely hobbled by the 601 CPU, which is soldered to the board. If you wanted a beige Mac to play with that you felt like tricking out, a 7300, 7500 or 7600 (or even an 8600 or 9600) would serve you much better. If you just want a classic OS 9 Mac to run those apps on, however, the Cube is perfectly satisfactory.
        Last edited by ClassicHasClass; August 1, 2016, 06:36 AM.
        I use my C128 because I am an ornery, stubborn, retro grouch. -- Bob Masse
        Various projects and oddities:
        Machine room:


          Yes, System 7.5 can do something 9.2.2 can't - It's not as bloated.

          If you can imagine when System 7 first came out, think of an open grass field. By the time 9.2.2 came around, it was a strip mall with apartments, a casino and an airport landing strip.

          Apple was plagued by bitter infighting and empire building for over a decade which resulted in their next flagship OS (which turned into OS X) being continually delayed. As a stopgap, Apple went on a spending spree and bought up the rights to lots of third party extensions to the OS and included it in the OS itself. So by the time 9.2.2 came around, it was pretty much just cobbled together bits of 3rd party code in a bouillabaisse of insanity. The OS footprint was huge and the OS itself could be very unstable.

          The only thing that 9.2.2 offers over 7.5.x is more of the OS has been ported to PowerPC instead of relying on an integrated 68k emulator so it can be faster in certain situations. OS 9 also had some libraries (like carbon and quickdraw 3d) that some of the last classic Mac OS applications needed to run.


            Depends on what hardware you want to run.

            The 7500/8500 series were the most upgradable Macs I ever owned. G3 upgrades are dirt cheap, 8 slots for tons of RAM (1GB Max). Lots of Mac PCI cards for SCSI, IDE, SATA, etc. Stuff like Radius Telecast video editing suites that won't work under OS 9.
            What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
            Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
            Boxed apps and games for the above systems
            Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems


              The OS footprint was huge and the OS itself could be very unstable.
              But that's all relative. Remember when 10.0 came out and everyone complained on and on about how slow it was and how much it sucked and how OS 9 was so much better? 9.x is definitely bigger than 7.x (and, for that matter, 8.x), but the nanokernel is more efficient and the OS is perfectly performant if you have the memory.

              True, 9.2 and up were better tuned for running under Classic instead of natively and I wouldn't run it on an Old World Mac, but that's not true of 9.0.4 or 9.1. I won't dispute that 8.1 or 8.6 are sweetspots for lower spec machines, but 9.1 works great if you have the RAM.

              I do quibble with the stability question, though. I don't think OS 9 was any more unstable than any other version of the classic Mac OS, and I've never found it to be so in my heavy personal usage even to this day. Like any version of Mac OS with a capital M, once you get a stable set of extensions and control panels, it usually "just works."
              I use my C128 because I am an ornery, stubborn, retro grouch. -- Bob Masse
              Various projects and oddities:
              Machine room: