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MAC iicx

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    #16
    Cheers for that info

    I am using a VGA monitor and for the Peforma the pin 7 to 10 extended sense code works but I was wondering if the card cant make sense of it and therefore not seeing a monitor so refusing to output video.

    Will try a different code and see if I get a signal.
    Current fleet
    TRS80 Model 4 - BBC B - Tatung Einstein - PCW9512 - PET 3032 - C64 - ZX81 - Spectrum 48K - Amiga A500 - Apple II europlus - Apple iMAC G3. Sharp MZ-80K. - IBM 5160 XT - Multibus 286/10 - Micro PDP 11/73 - Rainbow PC100A - MicroVax II - MicroVAX 3100, 3300, VAX 4000 VLC & 4000 Model 96 - AlphaStation 225Apricot PC - Apple Performa 6200 - Apple Mac IIcx

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Gary C View Post
      Some progress.

      All the surface mount capacitors replaced (and the flipflop reflowed) and it now powers on reliably.

      It now makes a single chime (a single chord, which sounds very much like the first chord in that 90's intel inside advert) which is the happy chime ?
      The chime means it is working enough to read the ROM and run the boot code from it. You should also recap the power supply, as dirty power rails can cause the machine to act erratically as well. Another thing to check is the RAM, if you have any bad RAM, the machine won't boot properly either.

      Originally posted by Gary C View Post
      if I press the NIM button I get what I think is the unhappy four note increasing scale ?
      NMI* Pressing the programmer's switch during boot will cause the machine to crash with either a sad mac or no video, depending on where in the boot process it is.

      Originally posted by Gary C View Post
      Cheers for that info

      I am using a VGA monitor and for the Peforma the pin 7 to 10 extended sense code works but I was wondering if the card cant make sense of it and therefore not seeing a monitor so refusing to output video.

      Will try a different code and see if I get a signal.
      Almost all Apple 68k video cards are dumb and always output a video signal, regardless if a monitor is connected or not. The only thing they detect from the monitor is a matrix of a few pins to know the resolution capabilities of the connected monitor. If the video card doesn't a valid configuration, it will default to the lowest setting the card supports, usually 640x480 @ 67 Hz. This is not a standard VGA refresh rate, and a lot of modern monitors have problems with it. You'll usually get an out of range message if the monitor doesn't support it.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by GiGaBiTe View Post
        Almost all Apple 68k video cards are dumb and always output a video signal, regardless if a monitor is connected or not. The only thing they detect from the monitor is a matrix of a few pins to know the resolution capabilities of the connected monitor. If the video card doesn't a valid configuration, it will default to the lowest setting the card supports, usually 640x480 @ 67 Hz. This is not a standard VGA refresh rate, and a lot of modern monitors have problems with it. You'll usually get an out of range message if the monitor doesn't support it.
        I can see its processor accessing its rom, but can see no activity on the ramdac which suggests its not being accessed by the cards processor to run the video. It might be duff but I will try tying sense pin 1 to ground tomorrow to see if a valid code would make a difference (at the moment it will see no monitor connected code with pin 7 & 10 connected together and not using the extended sense code method)

        Fingers crossed.
        Current fleet
        TRS80 Model 4 - BBC B - Tatung Einstein - PCW9512 - PET 3032 - C64 - ZX81 - Spectrum 48K - Amiga A500 - Apple II europlus - Apple iMAC G3. Sharp MZ-80K. - IBM 5160 XT - Multibus 286/10 - Micro PDP 11/73 - Rainbow PC100A - MicroVax II - MicroVAX 3100, 3300, VAX 4000 VLC & 4000 Model 96 - AlphaStation 225Apricot PC - Apple Performa 6200 - Apple Mac IIcx

        Comment


          #19
          Well that nails it

          Without a valid original sense code the (or at least my) 4.8 card does not output any video signal.

          I connected Sense 1 to ground (RGB 15" monitor type) and the display leapt into life With a refresh rate of 75hz its well within my LCD monitors capability.

          Just need to rebuild the machine now and see if the HD has any life left in it (and strip the floppy, never seen so much crap, its slot must be the major inflow of air to the chassis !
          Current fleet
          TRS80 Model 4 - BBC B - Tatung Einstein - PCW9512 - PET 3032 - C64 - ZX81 - Spectrum 48K - Amiga A500 - Apple II europlus - Apple iMAC G3. Sharp MZ-80K. - IBM 5160 XT - Multibus 286/10 - Micro PDP 11/73 - Rainbow PC100A - MicroVax II - MicroVAX 3100, 3300, VAX 4000 VLC & 4000 Model 96 - AlphaStation 225Apricot PC - Apple Performa 6200 - Apple Mac IIcx

          Comment


            #20
            Floppy a bit manky

            20210402_102832.jpg 20210402_102917.jpg 20210402_102924.jpg 20210402_103033_001.jpg

            I can hear the hard drive spin up, then spin down so I think its dead, certainly won't boot. I will have to make some OS floppies, which is a pain as I will have to setup my winXP machine and its far too big.
            Current fleet
            TRS80 Model 4 - BBC B - Tatung Einstein - PCW9512 - PET 3032 - C64 - ZX81 - Spectrum 48K - Amiga A500 - Apple II europlus - Apple iMAC G3. Sharp MZ-80K. - IBM 5160 XT - Multibus 286/10 - Micro PDP 11/73 - Rainbow PC100A - MicroVax II - MicroVAX 3100, 3300, VAX 4000 VLC & 4000 Model 96 - AlphaStation 225Apricot PC - Apple Performa 6200 - Apple Mac IIcx

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by GiGaBiTe View Post

              NMI*
              Yes, bit of finger dyslexia

              None Maskable Interrupt button.
              Current fleet
              TRS80 Model 4 - BBC B - Tatung Einstein - PCW9512 - PET 3032 - C64 - ZX81 - Spectrum 48K - Amiga A500 - Apple II europlus - Apple iMAC G3. Sharp MZ-80K. - IBM 5160 XT - Multibus 286/10 - Micro PDP 11/73 - Rainbow PC100A - MicroVax II - MicroVAX 3100, 3300, VAX 4000 VLC & 4000 Model 96 - AlphaStation 225Apricot PC - Apple Performa 6200 - Apple Mac IIcx

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Gary C View Post
                Well that nails it

                Without a valid original sense code the (or at least my) 4.8 card does not output any video signal.

                I connected Sense 1 to ground (RGB 15" monitor type) and the display leapt into life With a refresh rate of 75hz its well within my LCD monitors capability.

                Just need to rebuild the machine now and see if the HD has any life left in it (and strip the floppy, never seen so much crap, its slot must be the major inflow of air to the chassis !
                That's weird, I've never seen a Mac II video card that required a monitor to be present to boot properly. Usually it just blasts out a signal regardless if something is connected or not. I have a few Nubus video cards and they all do that. I guess there are some that require some pins to be pulled low to work.

                Maybe it's because the IIcx doesn't have an onboard video chip and the Nubus video card is treated differently.

                Originally posted by Gary C View Post
                I can hear the hard drive spin up, then spin down so I think its dead
                Tried it with a different power supply? You may also want to remove the lid and inspect the drive, it could have stuck heads.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by GiGaBiTe View Post
                  That's weird, I've never seen a Mac II video card that required a monitor to be present to boot properly. Usually it just blasts out a signal regardless if something is connected or not.
                  Certainly not. I've experienced that as well. I have a few Macs with two video cards and there's no way to get a picture on the second card unless a display was connected when powering on. Otherwise, the card does not produce a video signal. So it is safe to say: no sense pins = no video signal.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    There are sense pins in the cable. I thought for Apple branded cards at least that was always the case. How is a computer/cars going to know to produce mono or color video?

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by tipc View Post
                      There are sense pins in the cable. I thought for Apple branded cards at least that was always the case.
                      Of course, that's the whole point and the reason why the cards don't give video with nothing connected.

                      Originally posted by tipc View Post
                      How is a computer/cards going to know to produce mono or color video?
                      It doesn't need to know. Videos cards on the Mac are either dedicated monochrome or dedicated color cards.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Ok didn't know that. That is the case with PS/2's though. Macs must start with a specific resolution. You can't readily change video modes with an early color Mac, if at all.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          What is 'interesting' is that what works with the IIcx, ie sense 1 to ground with sense 0 & 2 open circuit to select Apple 15" RGB monitor, does not work with the Performa 6200 which seems strange as it came with a 15" monitor ?
                          To get that to work I used the pin 7 to 10 extended sense code for VGA, did the Performa effectively come with a VGA monitor ?

                          In other news, strip down of the ADB keyboard is underway as the bars on the shift keys has corroded so much they stick and the rest is generally filthy.
                          Current fleet
                          TRS80 Model 4 - BBC B - Tatung Einstein - PCW9512 - PET 3032 - C64 - ZX81 - Spectrum 48K - Amiga A500 - Apple II europlus - Apple iMAC G3. Sharp MZ-80K. - IBM 5160 XT - Multibus 286/10 - Micro PDP 11/73 - Rainbow PC100A - MicroVax II - MicroVAX 3100, 3300, VAX 4000 VLC & 4000 Model 96 - AlphaStation 225Apricot PC - Apple Performa 6200 - Apple Mac IIcx

                          Comment


                            #28
                            While the sense pins are described by Apple as selecting the monitor size, what they really do is to select the display resolution. The Performa 6200 may only support VGA resolutions.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Is it only monochrome vga monitors that use sense pins?

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Timo W. View Post
                                While the sense pins are described by Apple as selecting the monitor size, what they really do is to select the display resolution. The Performa 6200 may only support VGA resolutions.
                                That's what I was wondering.

                                Certainly seems as if there isn't an overlap. Which is a pity as now I will have to make up another cable, ah well.

                                But at least its another 68k MAC rescue well on the way.
                                Current fleet
                                TRS80 Model 4 - BBC B - Tatung Einstein - PCW9512 - PET 3032 - C64 - ZX81 - Spectrum 48K - Amiga A500 - Apple II europlus - Apple iMAC G3. Sharp MZ-80K. - IBM 5160 XT - Multibus 286/10 - Micro PDP 11/73 - Rainbow PC100A - MicroVax II - MicroVAX 3100, 3300, VAX 4000 VLC & 4000 Model 96 - AlphaStation 225Apricot PC - Apple Performa 6200 - Apple Mac IIcx

                                Comment

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