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MAC iicx

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    MAC iicx

    Hi

    can anyone help me troubleshoot a IICX ?

    When powered up, I can see bus activity on the RAM & the ROM, the hard drive spins up then down and the floppy is accessed, but I get no tones and nothing on the screen.

    I can see a burst of activity on the NUBUS and the memory/rom being accessed on the video card.

    So, it looks as if the CPU is running and accessing the rom, ram and the video card then running some access on the disks but not putting anything on the screen and not playing the tones.

    What is the normal startup sequence and should I at least get the sad face icon on the screen for any fault (except a video card fault of course)

    Did think it was a total loss, but seeing bus activity makes me think it might be saveable.
    Current fleet
    TRS80 Model 4 - BBC B - Tatung Einstein - PCW9512 - PET 3032 - C64 - ZX81 - Spectrum 48K - Amiga A500 - Apple II europlus - Apple iMAC G3. Sharp MZ-80K. - IBM 5160 XT - Multibus 286/10 - Micro PDP 11/73 - Rainbow PC100A - MicroVax II - MicroVAX 3100, 3300, VAX 4000 VLC & 4000 Model 96 - AlphaStation 225Apricot PC - Apple Performa 6200 - Apple Mac IIcx

    #2
    Have you recapped the logic board and the power supply already? Because if you haven't, that's probably why the machine doesn't work. Any Apple machine with the garbage 80s/90s SMD electrolytics needs to be recapped by this point in time.

    Look for wetness or brown/yellow stains around the bases of the SMD capacitors on the board, if you see anything then the board needs to be recapped. The PSU should also be recapped because they fail as well.

    Comment


      #3
      Caps are something on the list but I wonder why the video card isn't displaying anything as it seems its being addressed (it might be duff though) and there is sensible activity on the CPU bus.

      Watching a boot of a healthy unit, it looks as if video should start as soon as power is applied so should be activated in the exchange I can see on the nubus i think so either its getting crap, or the card is faulty.

      I will try a cheap monochrome adapter and replace the caps but I also need to remove the smd logic chips as one is faulty as I need to warm it up to get the PSU to switch on.
      Current fleet
      TRS80 Model 4 - BBC B - Tatung Einstein - PCW9512 - PET 3032 - C64 - ZX81 - Spectrum 48K - Amiga A500 - Apple II europlus - Apple iMAC G3. Sharp MZ-80K. - IBM 5160 XT - Multibus 286/10 - Micro PDP 11/73 - Rainbow PC100A - MicroVax II - MicroVAX 3100, 3300, VAX 4000 VLC & 4000 Model 96 - AlphaStation 225Apricot PC - Apple Performa 6200 - Apple Mac IIcx

      Comment


        #4
        You need to replace all of the capacitors before doing any more troubleshooting. The caps going bad WILL prevent the machine from booting. It doesn't matter what video card you use in the system, the results are going to be the same.

        It's especially important to recap the power supply, failing capacitors can cause power problems that can damage the motherboard.

        Originally posted by Gary C View Post
        I also need to remove the smd logic chips as one is faulty as I need to warm it up to get the PSU to switch on.
        This is a symptom of bad capacitors, rarely is it bad ICs that cause the issue.

        Comment


          #5
          What would be the cost to do all the caps in a IIcx or IIx? Just electrolytics need to be replaced?

          Comment


            #6
            +1 on replacing those SMD capacitors if it's never been done. My IIci was behaving similarly, but replacing the smd electrolytics fixed it. Regardless, it's the first thing to do before looking deeper.

            For real. I am one of those guys who is dubious about premature recapping, and I seldom do it unless something is actually broken (and even then only ythe ones that are actually bad). But those smd trashcans that Apple used back then are complete and utter garbage.

            Also get rid of the nicad PRAM battery before it leaks. I like to remove the holder and solder in some leads that run to a 3AA holder stuck to the back of the *outside* of the case, so then if something leaks it won't leak on the board.
            -- Lee
            If you get super-bored, try muh crappy YouTube channel: Old Computer Fun!
            Looking to Buy/Trade For (non-working is fine): Mac IIci hard drive sled and one bottom rubber foot, Multisync VGA CRTs, Decent NuBus video card, PC-era Tandy stuff, Weird Old Unix Stuff, Aesthetic Old Serial Terminals (HP and Data General in particular)

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by tipc View Post
              What would be the cost to do all the caps in a IIcx or IIx? Just electrolytics need to be replaced?
              A capacitor kit would probably be $30-$35. Going with polymer caps would be a bit more expensive. There's also the option of using tantalum capacitors, but it's not something I'd recommend due to how temperamental they are. Some people swear by them though.

              If you wanted someone else to recap a board you have, it'd be whatever their going labor rate is plus shipping. I've recapped boards for a few people here.

              Comment


                #8
                Is mouser a good source for the right caps? I haven't dealt with any of these companies in years, all I know is whenever I go to the digikey sight they stick crappola right up in my face and attempt to force me to capitulate.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Both Digikey and Mouser have similar interfaces, but I find Mouser easier to navigate. Less information is thrown in your face at once so it's a lot easier to make decisions on components.

                  Also Mouser is only around ~220 miles from me so it doesn't take long to get parts.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Digikey has changed their site some, but it's still offensive. It used to be you couldn't do anything until yousigned up. Now there's just the odious cookie disclaimer, and no way to opt out. You either accept or exit. They can go strait to you know where. Mouser on the other hand exercises some class and tact. That's where I'll be shopping. Digikey used to be awesome as I recall. I won't even be going back to their site.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The cookies thing is to comply with the GDPR law in the EU. Technically any website that is accessible in the EU is required to comply with the GDPR and give notice about what information is stored from whoever is accessing the site, but most people running websites don't comply with it. You really only see it on businesses with an online presence that do business with people in the EU have it.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        With dk it was worse. The cookies thing you see a lot obviously. Some sights just make it more difficult for you to navigate around the page. And compliance or not, invasive cookies aren't necessary. Because they use them they're obligated to announce. Doesn't make me feel any better.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I have a complete set coming from RS for about 20. Fortunately, I have a business account with them and get free next day delivery.

                          I too dont like just to recap, prefer to diagnose and fix, but it does look as if its a necessary step with these after a bit of reading.
                          Current fleet
                          TRS80 Model 4 - BBC B - Tatung Einstein - PCW9512 - PET 3032 - C64 - ZX81 - Spectrum 48K - Amiga A500 - Apple II europlus - Apple iMAC G3. Sharp MZ-80K. - IBM 5160 XT - Multibus 286/10 - Micro PDP 11/73 - Rainbow PC100A - MicroVax II - MicroVAX 3100, 3300, VAX 4000 VLC & 4000 Model 96 - AlphaStation 225Apricot PC - Apple Performa 6200 - Apple Mac IIcx

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Some progress.

                            All the surface mount capacitors replaced (and the flipflop reflowed) and it now powers on reliably.

                            It now makes a single chime (a single chord, which sounds very much like the first chord in that 90's intel inside advert) which is the happy chime ?

                            if I press the NIM button I get what I think is the unhappy four note increasing scale ?

                            Still no video though.

                            Looking at the video card its a standard Macintosh display card (4.8 ?), and the lead I am using is set with pin 7 to pin 10 at the Mac side, now will this work with this card ? I can't find anything to say it will or won't but the lead works with my Performa 6200.

                            The cheap monochrome card isn't here yet to try.

                            Getting there
                            Current fleet
                            TRS80 Model 4 - BBC B - Tatung Einstein - PCW9512 - PET 3032 - C64 - ZX81 - Spectrum 48K - Amiga A500 - Apple II europlus - Apple iMAC G3. Sharp MZ-80K. - IBM 5160 XT - Multibus 286/10 - Micro PDP 11/73 - Rainbow PC100A - MicroVax II - MicroVAX 3100, 3300, VAX 4000 VLC & 4000 Model 96 - AlphaStation 225Apricot PC - Apple Performa 6200 - Apple Mac IIcx

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I couldn't find the table, but I don't believe the JMFB cards supported extended sense / VGA (jumpering 7 to 10) so you're stuck with the original 7 video modes
                              You didn't say what kind of monitor you are trying. I'm assuming VGA


                              https://lowendmac.com/1990/macintosh-display-card-4-8/ makes no mention of VGA support
                              and here is a decent table of sense codes
                              https://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~davis/pr...c/monitor.html
                              Last edited by Al Kossow; April 1, 2021, 08:47 AM.

                              Comment

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