Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.

Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.

Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.

Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.

Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.

Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.

Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.

New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.

Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
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Browser for Windows 3.11

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    Ole Juul said...kinds of "clever" (by half) coding
    Just turn scripting off in your browser...


      Originally posted by Ole Juul View Post
      carlsson nailed it. Its the java and flash thats the killer. Flash you can do without, any website that relies on it isn't worth going to anyway, but you're going to need at least CSS and java for a "normal" experience. The older browsers like Netscape 1.0, Cello, etc. won't do it.
      I've used the net on my Pentium 133 with Windows 98 SE and Internet Explorer (version 5? I can't remember), and sites that have a lot of animation (advertisements and such) are incredibly slow. I couldn't imagine trying it on a 486.


        Originally posted by patscc View Post
        Just turn scripting off in your browser...
        Thanks, I haven't actually tried that but its worth a look.
        Normally I have more than half a dozen windows open on several desktops and, as you know, if you change one, they all change. I like different settings for different kinds of sites. To solve that problem, I use 3 and ocationally 4 browsers at the same time. It just seems easier that way.

        They are, by the way, Firefox, Dillo, and Epiphany, with the fourth sometimes being Konquoror. I rarely use a text browser these days, but when I do, it is Elinks.
        WANTED: Cardinal 2450MNP modem.


          I've been playing around with WfW 3.11 in VirtualBox for awhile now with very poor results. None of the browsers I've found can render most modern web pages even remotely correctly. You'll get lots of crashes too in my experience. This is basically regardless of whether the site uses flash, java, or anything else.


            I'm not sure if there's a DOS/Win311 port of this, but Links2 does javascript, which is nice if you're stuck needing it for something.
            More commonly known as "Yushatak" -
            Focused on 486 and Pentium Machines
            I collect All-In-One PCs and Keyboard PCs, especially Compaq.


              If you just want to have the progman interface, you could install NT 3.51. With the lastest patches at least the latest version of Firefox2 will work. I havn`t tried FF3. With addional work Flash 7 (can`t remember exactly) can be used. NT 3.51 will have much more RAM instead of 3.11. Officially it needs 12 mb, but I`ve heard that 8 are enough to run.


                Here's all the browser's I've used with Windows 3.1x and my opinions on them in a modern environment......

                Netscape 2.02 - Utterly worthless, more Javascript errors than you can shake a debugger at!

                Netscape 4.08 - Works rather well except on certain websites that make extensive use of Flash and Java. Can have some Text issues with some sites.

                MSIE 5.0 - Works okay, but Google links are unclickable, and once again, the bugger of Javascript and Flash becomes a problem.

                The best browser I have going on my 486 is Arachne for DOS, if it were not for some games, I would probably drop back to just using MS-DOS on the machine with no Windows whatsoever, since everything can be done in MS-DOS now given all the programs that are out there from LeetIRC, to CD-Roast, to Arachne, to WordPerfect 5.1 (even the old standbys get quite a lot of use).


                  Let me narrow the question, what's the best browser for WFW 3.11 using a 386DX33 with 8megs. I tried 5.01 and after I got installed found a readme.txt file that stated that a 486 was required for ie5.01. It worked but very, very, slow.

                  Would NS4 work with a 386?



                    To anwser my own question, just the basic ie3 worked. It was installed without any java VM support. There was a text file that recommended that VM not be installed in a 386 class machine. I believe it. I was able to post a message to a vbulletin board I run but it took about 30 minutes to load the pages needed to post a new thread. It did work though. It casscaded nicely and displayed what it did correctly. I used the default style page from vbulletin. I ran well with other static html test pages.

                    Next up, can I post a message with a 286?



                      If there is a text browser running on a 286 (DOS mode?), it shouldn't be a problem. I'm posting on several forums with a text browser, some are easier to operate than others. This one (vBulletin) may be the only one I haven't tried to access text only.
                      Anders Carlsson


                        My machine in my sig goes online.
                        IBM PS/2 Model 25, NEC V30 8MHz, 640KB RAM, ATI VGA Wonder XL, 2GB SSD, Ethernet, DR DOS 6/GeOS, Xircom PE3 Ethernet


                          Originally posted by evildragon View Post
                          My machine in my sig goes online.
                          You've inspired me to get my Canon Navigator 40HD (NEC V30, 640kb, 40mb, 1.44MB, grayscale EGA) online. The thing has a built-in modem, but I don't have a real analog phone line, and I can't remember if the thing has an ISA slot to add a NIC, but I am now on a mission.