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This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

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There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


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  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
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To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
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Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
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Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


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If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
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Another recycle-center rescue...

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    #61
    It was cheap, I won't be out too much if it doesn't work, but it looks pretty fixable to me. (I'm figuring I can use a couple of butter knives as a makeshift clamp for each row and column; cranking them back into line individually, I inevitably wind up breaking or severely weakening at least one pin.) I checked, though, and the pins were bent in the item photo, so the seller's cheap packaging isn't at fault. Ah well, 'slong as it works...
    Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
    Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Moog Satellite, Oberheim SEM
    "'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup

    Comment


      #62
      This probably isn't new to you, but if the pins aren't too badly bend, you can use one of these to bend them back http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/...ncorrector.jpg
      I've done it numerous times. Usually the pins won't break (unless it's a FC-PGA Pentium 3 or newer).
      I agree with you that it should've been packaged well and sturdy, but things are as they are. Just bend them back, it's what I would do

      Comment


        #63
        Well, they are good solid thick ones, at least by comparison to later PGA processors (easy to understand why CPUs of this era are prized for scrap gold.) I could use a mechanical pencil or other thin rigid tool to fix them individually, I just have a bad tendency to overcorrect, which I then have to fix, and the more I do it the more frustrated I get and the harder it gets to remain accurate, and eventually one of the pins breaks from stress. Thankfully I've never wrecked a really valuable chip doing this, but as tough as 40MHz 386s are to come by (especially in the $15-20 range) I want to play it extra-safe.
        Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
        Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Moog Satellite, Oberheim SEM
        "'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup

        Comment


          #64
          I use slot blanks. they're (mostly) straight and you know when the bent pins are correctly aligned with other pins.

          Comment


            #65
            Well, the butterknives worked like a charm, along with a little manual adjustment, and she went in without a fuss. Works, too - I now have a 40MHz powerhouse! Even better, despite what the motherboard manual implies, it works perfectly fine with the ISA bus clock divider cut to AT/6 at 40MHz (rather than AT/10.) I threw in half of my 4MB SIMMs for the moment; at 20MB and 40MHz the memory-count is still pretty tolerable. We'll see if I wind up needing the full 32MB or not.

            Also good news: some facet of whatever I did has resolved the issue with NT crashing; dunno if it didn't like the Chips & Technologies CPU, or if it ran out of RAM but wouldn't say so, but it now boots into NT setup proper with no trouble. Got 'er formatting an NTFS partition on the spare 2GB, and I'll get her up and running; I should have a lot less trouble finding an SSL-compliant mail client for NT 3.5 than WFW 3.11 (and maybe a better browser, though I don't know if anything more modern than Netscape Navigator 4.08 is going to be happy on a 386.)

            Next steps from here:
            • Get a better video card. This one is mostly okay, but the RAM to upgrade to SVGA, at going prices, would cost about as much as a new card, the palette DAC isn't dual-ported so you get snow any time a game does a fade, and it has an annoying habit of rebooting in monochrome mode.
            • Replace the hard drive. This one appears to be getting unreliable, timing out at boot with increasing frequency. Anybody have any experience with using SSDs with DOS/Win3.1? Do there tend to be compatibility issues? Do modern SSDs' integrated load-balancing balance out the fact that the OSes have no idea how to treat them?
            Last edited by commodorejohn; June 7, 2012, 09:06 PM.
            Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
            Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Moog Satellite, Oberheim SEM
            "'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup

            Comment


              #66
              Oy. Aggravatingly, it seems that my NIC (3Com 3C515-TX) is compatible with WFW 3.11, but for some reason not with NT 3.5 - gotta upgrade to 3.5.1. Probably won't bother with that until I've got a replacement hard drive taken care of, it's getting pretty problematic. Still, at least NT does work.
              Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
              Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Moog Satellite, Oberheim SEM
              "'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup

              Comment


                #67
                Good stuff.
                Thomas Byers (DRI)- "You'll have a million people using the A> [MS-DOS prompt] forever. You'll have five million using [nongraphic] menu systems such as Topview, Concurrent PC-DOS, Desq, and those types. But there'll be 50 to 100 million using the iconic-based interfaces."

                Comment


                  #68
                  I may have some insertable graphics card memory, I'll photo the chips and show you tomorrow and let you figure out what it is. I wouldn't want a lot for em, $10 + shipping in the USA or something, I don't know what size they are either, I'll photo em and post the image and let you figure it out. sleep though as of typing this, it's 5:22am.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by kithylin View Post
                    I may have some insertable graphics card memory, I'll photo the chips and show you tomorrow and let you figure out what it is. I wouldn't want a lot for em, $10 + shipping in the USA or something, I don't know what size they are either, I'll photo em and post the image and let you figure it out. sleep though as of typing this, it's 5:22am.
                    The sockets on the card are for 4464s. Thanks for the offer, but I don't think you should feel you have to bother; given that the card is already a bit quirky, I'm just going to replace it. (There's one on eBay I've got my eye on, hopefully I can snag that.)
                    Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
                    Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Moog Satellite, Oberheim SEM
                    "'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Ugh, NT 3.51 just straight-up freezes with the Fast Etherlink driver. I have a couple other ISA NICs to try, but I was kinda hoping it would just work...
                      Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
                      Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Moog Satellite, Oberheim SEM
                      "'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by commodorejohn View Post
                        Ugh, NT 3.51 just straight-up freezes with the Fast Etherlink driver. I have a couple other ISA NICs to try, but I was kinda hoping it would just work...
                        Are you using the 3COM drivers for the card?
                        Current Wish List: 1. IBM 7531 Industrial Series PC 2. NEC MultiSync XL (JC-2001) Monitor 3. MicroSolutions UniDOS card 4. Compaq 14" VGA CRT Monitor (the one that came with the SystemPro). 5. Stacker HW CoProcessor Board MCA BUS. If you have any of the above for sale please PM me. Thank you!

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Yep, right off the 3Com site (or rather, archive.org's copy before HP wrecked it - but that's another thread.) The WfWG driver works perfectly fine, but for some reason NT just does not like it (sounds from the event log like the export structure is messed-up or something - I tried re-extracting it, no dice.)
                          Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
                          Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Moog Satellite, Oberheim SEM
                          "'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup

                          Comment


                            #73
                            John,

                            Are you using the 2.0 or 2.0a drivers? Don't know if it will make any difference in your case but 2.0a was the last official release for the card. They are also available on archive.org or if you can't find them drop me a line and I'll email them to you.
                            Current Wish List: 1. IBM 7531 Industrial Series PC 2. NEC MultiSync XL (JC-2001) Monitor 3. MicroSolutions UniDOS card 4. Compaq 14" VGA CRT Monitor (the one that came with the SystemPro). 5. Stacker HW CoProcessor Board MCA BUS. If you have any of the above for sale please PM me. Thank you!

                            Comment


                              #74
                              I know this may be something you already know, but why not just pick a network adapter that will have native Microsoft drivers built into the operating system so you don't worry about this? at least then it's guaranteed to work / not-crash.

                              3com etherlink-III has been known to Microsoft OS's since 3.11 (although dropped in XP I think), most of the earlier ISA realtek nic's were too, and the intel ones.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by kithylin View Post
                                I know this may be something you already know, but why not just pick a network adapter that will have native Microsoft drivers built into the operating system so you don't worry about this? at least then it's guaranteed to work / not-crash.

                                3com etherlink-III has been known to Microsoft OS's since 3.11 (although dropped in XP I think), most of the earlier ISA realtek nic's were too, and the intel ones.
                                The 3C515 is an Etherlink III series adapter and besides where is the fun in having it just work?
                                Current Wish List: 1. IBM 7531 Industrial Series PC 2. NEC MultiSync XL (JC-2001) Monitor 3. MicroSolutions UniDOS card 4. Compaq 14" VGA CRT Monitor (the one that came with the SystemPro). 5. Stacker HW CoProcessor Board MCA BUS. If you have any of the above for sale please PM me. Thank you!

                                Comment

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