Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
See more
See less

"Better" 486 Video / Graphics Cards

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    I'm very picky about signal output quality and I regard that over speed. Here the S3 cards fall straight through. My ET4000 is very good, along with Matrox cards from that time period.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by vetz View Post
      I'm very picky about signal output quality and I regard that over speed. Here the S3 cards fall straight through. My ET4000 is very good, along with Matrox cards from that time period.
      Matrox always wins with DAC quality. My G400's analog output beats out whatever crap ATI was using in their video cards back in 2006. The Matrox card is noticeably sharper when running 1280x1024 output to a CRT.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by njroadfan View Post
        Matrox always wins with DAC quality. My G400's analog output beats out whatever crap ATI was using in their video cards back in 2006. The Matrox card is noticeably sharper when running 1280x1024 output to a CRT.
        Wouldn't it be a little difficult to cram the G400 AGP card into a 486?
        Surely not everyone was Kung-Fu fighting

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Agent Orange View Post
          Wouldn't it be a little difficult to cram the G400 AGP card into a 486?
          Yeah, one reason why I don't have a Matrox card in my 486. Pre-PCI units aren't very common. The Cirrus Logic card I have in there now has good output quality compared to the no-name S3 805 card that was in there. #9 seemed to have better output quality on their S3 cards as they paired them with higher end DACs.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by njroadfan View Post
            Yeah, one reason why I don't have a Matrox card in my 486. Pre-PCI units aren't very common. The Cirrus Logic card I have in there now has good output quality compared to the no-name S3 805 card that was in there. #9 seemed to have better output quality on their S3 cards as they paired them with higher end DACs.
            I have a Matrox Millenium w/ the daughter board that I occassionally ferry in an out of one of my 486 PCI rigs. Easily supported in Win95/Win98 and renders very nice resolution and colors - one of my favorites and have had since it was NIB.
            Surely not everyone was Kung-Fu fighting

            Comment


              #36
              My personal opinions (I'm going for price-performance here):

              ISA: Tseng ET4000AX. It was fast, compatible and for the longest time quite plentiful. Some very old games had quirks with them though (Tank Wars by Kenny Morse had difficulties showing some of the icons, but that was a minor glitch). Some later WDC chipsets were pretty good too (though early Paradise chips were dogs.) Third would be Cirrus GD5426+ as DOS was not dramatically slower and the accelerator made Windows more bearable at least.

              VLB: Cirrus were super-common and strictly average in all areas, though 5429 was a little better. S3's 64-bit Vision and Trio series rules the roost for overall DOS and Windows performance per dollar, as long as they were equipped with 2MB or more of memory. 805 was okay, but only just (they tended to be visibly faster than Cirrus's in Windows, but also visibly behind in DOS.) Some later Trident cards were surprising though: 9400CXi for instance had remarkably fluid Mode13h response for a Trident, and 9440 was decently quick for the price. (Trident of course tended to suffer from monitor detection troubles, as mentioned earlier.) Also surprising was an Avance Logic 2222VL - while its Windows and VESA VBE speed was nothing to write home about, it was very capable in Mode13h at least.

              PCI: Many good chipsets, S3's Vision and Trio series were plenty competitive overall and were common as heck, often quite cheap too. ViRGE was pretty decent, but Vision/Trio usually were noticeably faster in pure DOS. Trident's 64-bit TGUI9680 was a surprise as it was quite strong in DOS (especially Mode13h), though the VBE remained mediocre at best. 3dfx Banshee and V3+ of course dominated the whole field, but were often much harder to find and pricier, and some 486 PCI boards weren't too thrilled with them. Didn't use a Matrox too much sadly, but I remember owning a Millennium 2 based card that didn't really seem any faster than my S3 Trio64V+.
              Last edited by Eep386; April 26, 2013, 10:01 AM.

              Comment


                #37
                I'm hoping maybe you guys can help. I have a Headland HT216-32 Onboard (VLB) card, and I can't figure out how to force it to more than 60Hz in Windows 3.1. If I can't, what ISA Card is decent AND has a windows driver to force refresh rates, and isn't too expensive (I'm thinking like $20).

                Thanks!!

                Comment


                  #38
                  What kind of RAMDAC does that card have? Maybe the RAMDAC just can't do more than 60Hz. It's not an issue if you use an LCD panel though...
                  "Will the Highways on the internets become more few?"

                  V'Ger XT

                  Comment


                    #39
                    I'm not sure of the ramdac. I've found if I've used an ALTPARM Tool it comes with, and load the "Ergonomic" profile, it'll do above 60Hz in Windows, but it messes up dos games. Problem with LCD's is they usually can't handle all the resolutions of these vintage systems, can they?

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Matrox did make high end graphics cards for VLB (they did well in 24 bit for speed).

                      https://picasaweb.google.com/1077842...10059166487266
                      What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
                      Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
                      Boxed apps and games for the above systems
                      Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unknown_K View Post
                        Matrox did make high end graphics cards for VLB (they did well in 24 bit for speed).

                        https://picasaweb.google.com/1077842...10059166487266
                        Looking through those pictures, how many revisions did Diamond make of that Viper VLB? Three cards there all completely different in layout and I got a 4th version (A7) here in the box.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Not sure how many they made or how long they produced that card. Since they used a separate generic VGA core they could have sourced quite a few different ones. That and the different VRAM layout (surface mount would be cheaper I think).
                          What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
                          Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
                          Boxed apps and games for the above systems
                          Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Is there a reason to bother with the viper? It's only good at 256 colour accellerated graphics, right?
                            "Will the Highways on the internets become more few?"

                            V'Ger XT

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Sorry to butt in here, but I'm trying to remember a card i havent seen in over a decade.

                              It was a 16-bit ISA (not VLB) SVGA card that had composite and/or SVHS output.

                              I'm asking because I'm putting together a 486 machine that dosent really need high end graphics for dos
                              (I have a newer p3 machine for that)

                              Its will basically be limited to Deskview and Win 3.11. As i recall, the abovementioned card did 16K colors just fine (1 or 2MB onboard)

                              Its been over a decade since ive had to deal with this, so plz excuse my dusty brain here :P

                              Does anyone know what card it was?
                              -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Currently Looking for Samsung Sens Pro Laptop's (500, 520,800,820) and accessories, specifically a docking station.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Anonymous Coward View Post
                                Is there a reason to bother with the viper? It's only good at 256 colour accellerated graphics, right?
                                I would only use it in a 256 color Windows 3.1 machine for business apps (if you like to mess around with those). Not for gaming or high color use.
                                What I collect: 68K/Early PPC Mac, DOS/Win 3.1 era machines, Amiga/ST, C64/128
                                Nubus/ISA/VLB/MCA/EISA cards of all types
                                Boxed apps and games for the above systems
                                Analog video capture cards/software and complete systems

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X