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Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
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"Better" 486 Video / Graphics Cards

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  • dr.zeissler
    replied
    Do you use old CRT's or modern LCD's ? I mostly use my Eizo L367 (15" LCD). It has a very good picture-quality, BUT not having a centered picture is very annoying. Is there a tool to center all resolutions to my LCD?

    Thx
    Doc

    Leave a comment:


  • asellus
    replied
    I still use ATI's VESA on on of my PCs)) It's funny to make some soft or icons using this dinosaur Customers don't even think that that their iPhone icons like this www.aha-soft.com were done using card from last century)))

    Leave a comment:


  • Billyray
    replied
    Originally posted by smeezekitty View Post
    I use a core 2 duo as a main pc...
    That 4850 I got for $30 (free shipping) is also brand new!

    The wife still uses her Core 2 duo as a main PC as well. She's really pleased with her upgraded screen and vga. We bought that in '06 so not bad.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unknown_K
    replied
    Originally posted by smeezekitty View Post
    I use a core 2 duo as a main pc...
    Mine is a Opteron 1354 Tyan server board (AM2+).

    Leave a comment:


  • smeezekitty
    replied
    I use a core 2 duo as a main pc...

    Leave a comment:


  • Unknown_K
    replied
    You are paying extra for that warranty, and there is no way of knowing of that card manufacturer will be around if/when your card dies (BFG for example). Most video cards are just warmed over chips from the last few years anyway unless you are getting the top of the line.

    I have a few 4850's they do most jobs just fine and are cheap. My best video card was purchased as working but was DOA (fan cracked in shipping card didn't work), it is a 4870x2 with 2x1GB of RAM. High end for its day and cost me the price of a fan replacement $15ish after the ebay seller gave me a refund (was only $30 I think shipped). You can pick up an older monster card for $20 or less shipped if you look around, have a bunch of 9800 GTX+ here for that. Core 2 duo's are pretty old so you might as well get a vintage card.

    Leave a comment:


  • smeezekitty
    replied
    Not really. A core 2 duo can keep up pretty well although the 4850 and its equivalents are about the limit.

    But for example a Radeon R7-250 is in the same performance class but brand new.

    PCI-E cards are one place where I would go new if possible. That way you have a full warranty if something goes wrong

    Leave a comment:


  • Billyray
    replied
    Originally posted by smeezekitty View Post
    Is there any reason you bought such an old series instead of something new since it is PCI-E. I think it would have been worth it
    just to pay a bit more and take advantage of extra features, better driver support etc etc

    And you can always pull it out and reuse it in something else at some other time
    I guess my reason would be that I try to keep the cards somewhat within the time frame of the PC, but more importantly, I think, is that the CPU will be the bottleneck with a modern high end card. The card I went with was up to the job of driving a new 24" 1920 X 1080 flat screen which is used mostly for email, web surfing, turbo-tax, and puzzle type games. (nothing real demanding) Her old card was a ATI Radeon X1300/X1550. So this new card is still a noticeable upgrade.

    Leave a comment:


  • smeezekitty
    replied
    Originally posted by Billyray View Post
    I don't collect per se since everything I have I originally purchased new. However, I do collect the upgrades that were never done by buying on ebay etc. I would rather pay a non-bargain price for something in excellent condition, that will be reliable, or with a buyer that can accept returns. I just bought an ATI HD4890 graphics card from ebay to upgrade the wife's Core 2 duo XP computer. It was $50 but DOA. It was very disappointing because the card came with EVERYTHING that was in the original retail box (including the box!) The buyer kindly accepted the return and refunded by purchase price and shipping. Then I found a ATI HD4850 that was brand new for $30! (no box or extras though) So it was a slight downgrade, but it worked great so was worth it. I have also purchased many upgrade cards and components on Ebay. Sometimes (especially the graphics cards) they can be a tad expensive.

    I completely agree with Unkown_K that I would rather spend my time enjoying the classic rig rather than endlessly bickering with shady buyers on Ebay trying to score a "bargain."
    Is there any reason you bought such an old series instead of something new since it is PCI-E. I think it would have been worth it
    just to pay a bit more and take advantage of extra features, better driver support etc etc

    And you can always pull it out and reuse it in something else at some other time

    Leave a comment:


  • Billyray
    replied
    I don't collect per se since everything I have I originally purchased new. However, I do collect the upgrades that were never done by buying on ebay etc. I would rather pay a non-bargain price for something in excellent condition, that will be reliable, or with a buyer that can accept returns. I just bought an ATI HD4890 graphics card from ebay to upgrade the wife's Core 2 duo XP computer. It was $50 but DOA. It was very disappointing because the card came with EVERYTHING that was in the original retail box (including the box!) The buyer kindly accepted the return and refunded by purchase price and shipping. Then I found a ATI HD4850 that was brand new for $30! (no box or extras though) So it was a slight downgrade, but it worked great so was worth it. I have also purchased many upgrade cards and components on Ebay. Sometimes (especially the graphics cards) they can be a tad expensive.

    I completely agree with Unkown_K that I would rather spend my time enjoying the classic rig rather than endlessly bickering with shady sellers on Ebay trying to score a "bargain."
    Last edited by Billyray; July 31, 2014, 11:34 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • PeterNC
    replied
    That is why I do not collect. I do not have sufficient time to really play around with vintage hardware.

    Leave a comment:


  • RaptorZX3
    replied
    ok now that seller want me to send a postal money order...

    Leave a comment:


  • Unknown_K
    replied
    Originally posted by PeterLI View Post
    A matter of convenience. Some people do not care about $: they care about ease of shopping. When you have good query skills and a good eye you can still get super bargains on eBay for many common vintage components. They are mislabeled, buried in lots and so on.
    Everybody cares about money at some price point, but some people just don't have the time to sit in front of ebay all day looking for a needle in a haystack find. While I was thrilled to get a promise VLB caching controller with a 486 motherboard for something like $18 shipped, it is very uncommon to find a deal like that and I spend lots of time looking for things on ebay.

    To be honest it would be far cheaper if I just have 5 machines loaded to the top with rare cards at ebay prices then the huge collection I have purchased over the years at a bargain. Some people would rather pay going rates to get what they want all at once and then spend their quality time using them for whatever then blowing a mint over time for a massive collection they rarely fire up. Everybody is different some just want to relive the past and others like to tinker and have everything they never owned back in the day.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unknown_K
    replied
    Originally posted by Anonymous Coward View Post
    I can't believe how much ISA graphics adapters on ebay are listed for. Pretty much anything that isn't bottom of the barrel will sell for at least $50. A few years back you would have a hard time paying somebody to take a Cirrus Logic VGA card off your hands.
    Supply and demand. The supply has been destroyed by age, neglect and scrappers, while new collectors getting into the hobby has strained supply. Pretty much anything desirable has gone up in prices over the last few years. I used to be able to pick up VLB cards for little or nothing, forget about that now. Same issues with every other thing I collect.

    For gaming on ISA (or VLB) it is hard to beat a Tseng based card, I have a bunch in systems. Those cards also do well in Windows 3.1 or OS/2.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shadow Lord
    replied
    Originally posted by RaptorZX3 View Post
    The seller told me to call him, but i'll pay long distance fees...why can't he give me a quote by email?

    The Tseng ET4000AX seem to be a good choice for a DOS-only setup.
    Sounds screwy. Maybe he is trying to not have a trail on Amazons messaging? Unless you are desperate I'd say wait and something better will pop up.

    Leave a comment:

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