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Ibm 5110 dos

Gfbtdhg1

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Mar 20, 2017
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36
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Pennsylvania, New York
Hey,
I was wondering if running dos on a Basic/Apl machine, specifically the 5110, was even possible. I don't know if there is some form of DOS that doesn't require the 80x86 architecture, or a single CPU for that matter. Maybe a DOS emulation running in BASIC? I don't know,
Thanks,
Harper
 
Lots of DOSes ran on other architectures, most having no relationship to MS-DOS. The 5100 PALM was built using an emulated System 360 so conceivably one could have moved DOS/360 to it. The 5100 had about the same memory as the lower end of the 360 range that ran DOS/360. Might have been a bit overkill for the actual use of a 5100 though.
 
If you mean MS-DOS/clones thereof specifically, well, no, that's x86-specific. Hypothetically one could develop an emulator for it to run on the 5100 series, but there isn't much compelling reason other than just to say you did.
 
Lots of DOSes ran on other architectures, most having no relationship to MS-DOS. The 5100 PALM was built using an emulated System 360 so conceivably one could have moved DOS/360 to it. The 5100 had about the same memory as the lower end of the 360 range that ran DOS/360. Might have been a bit overkill for the actual use of a 5100 though.

I don't believe that the PALM implemented supervisor mode--and I'll bet that the PSW differed considerably. Then there's the matter of the channels. Still a 5100 with a few 2402s, 2311s and a 2501 might be interesting...
 
Could you run DOS/VS on a 5110? If so, does anybody have a copy of the files ��?? (I guess I could transfer them to a machine with a modified 8" drive from a 3.5" from a semi-modern computer)
 
Well I don't know about the 5100, but I do know the 5110 has disk drives and a cassete drive. If you could find a version on 8" floppy of DOS/360 or DOS/VS, maybe you could transfer it either to the 5110, or copy it to cassete and move it to the 5100?
 
Crikey--first of all, the PALM doesn't implement the S/360 instruction set. It has emulator code that allows it to interpretively execute the code stored in the APL or BASIC memories, which are accessed as peripherals, not as main memory. The interpreter interprets either a subset of S/360 or S/3 code, depending on the language being used.

The microcode for the 5110 is documented here.

Can you run DOS/VS on an 8008 system with a disk? Probably--the 8008 is Turing-complete. You can also run DOS/VS with a few large bowls and truckloads of pennies. I wouldn't want to do either--life is way too short.
 
Would a tape emulator be possible for the 5110? I can use the smartphone to record(SAVE) and load stuff back on the 5110, but that's regular "audio" signals. Just to begin, where would one get cable connector ends for that set of 3 ports on the back of the 5110? But the "external" tape seems to be different than the 5110 model 1 internal tape (or 5100 tape), which connects to the "tape" port on the "A1 board" itself (and has different data rates and capacity).

Even if a 5106 tape deck can be found, can any suitable tapes be found? Hence a tape emulator mechanism would be handy.
 
Check out http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/ibm_5110/technik/en/5110.html

The tape used was the DC300 QIC tape. DC600 QIC could also be used if what I read is correct. Those are still available but relatively pricey for old tape.

Are you sure about the different data rates between internal and external tape drives? I thought the external drive was equivalent to the internal drive but very nicely shielded. It is not an audio interface so a MP3 player or smartphone will not work.

I remember reading about an early QIC tape emulator out there but I can't track down it down. Someone else I hope remembers it. Not set up for the 5100 series but might be close enough to modify into working.
 
Al, using IBM's squib, they sure look like it though--what were they? I know the prototype used regular audio-cassette sized tapes.

02103.jpg
 
They're DC300 carts all right. But the data format is not any QIC standard. For a start it's two (parallel) track. Not serpentine.

I would also be surprised to learn the external drive has a different data rate. Unless it also has a different tape speed, and the end result is a recorded cartridge that can be read on either drive.
 
Crikey--first of all, the PALM doesn't implement the S/360 instruction set. It has emulator code that allows it to interpretively execute the code stored in the APL or BASIC memories, which are accessed as peripherals, not as main memory. The interpreter interprets either a subset of S/360 or S/3 code, depending on the language being used.

Clearly what needs to be done here is someone needs to cook up some new PALM microcode so it emulates an 8086 CPU. Then, sure, it'll run DOS, right?
 
They're DC300 carts all right. But the data format is not any QIC standard. For a start it's two (parallel) track. Not serpentine.

I would also be surprised to learn the external drive has a different data rate. Unless it also has a different tape speed, and the end result is a recorded cartridge that can be read on either drive.

Not that unusual--I've got a 3M DCD-2 2 track drive that takes DC300. Used on some sort of industrial gear. If it's a Quarter Inch Cartridge, I think it's safe to call the physical media QIC. When you get into some of the preformatted cartridges (e.g. Iotamat), things get even stranger.
 
"If it's a Quarter Inch Cartridge, I think it's safe to call the physical media QIC."

NO, IT'S NOT NO MATTER WHAT WIKIPEDIA SAYS

QIC is a industry standards organization. 3M made DATA CARTRIDGES (where the DC comes from) for almost ten years before the Quarter Inch Committee existed.
I checked the literature before QIC standards were invented and companies called them DATA CARTRIDGES

It is VERY confusing to use QIC for Quarter Inch Cartridges.

and that is all I'm going to say on this subject.
 
On the topic of these cartridges, I'd love if there were a way to back up a few IBM 5100 Basic Problem Solver Library cartridges that I have, which are crumbling. I'd also love it if anyone had data from any of the other 51x0 tapes distributed by IBM, including any APL Problem Solver Library software and the second-level debugger that doesn't live in ROS.
 
Any chance it's as easy as loading up the files and saving to a newer tape? I don't have any tapes but I do have a 5100 with 5106 external tape drive. I haven't had the opportunity to mess with tapes yet but if I could help make duplicates, I would be happy to help.
 
I think the tapes are not in good enough shape for a 5100 to be able to read them productively. I think what you'd want is something a bit more like a KryoFlux that can record an analogue signal and then try and reconstruct the binary data from what you're able to pull from the tape. There are several folks on this forum who have worked on recoveries not unlike this, but it's an undertaking to be sure.
 
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