AS/400 - RPG III - Unix

[Agent Orange]

I was reading an article that referenced the AS/400 and mentioned RPG III and Unix. My question is how did Unix compare to RPG III at that time? Was not RPG III prevalent and maybe Unix special purpose? I suppose this is one for the old timers.

 

[mbbrutman]

RPG III is a programming language derived from the old plug-board systems of the 1940s and 1950s. Unix is an operating system. You really can't compare them.

 

[Agent Orange]

RPG III is a programming language derived from the old plug-board systems of the 1940s and 1950s. Unix is an operating system. You really can't compare them.

I'm confused. According to the IBM RPG Wiki it first appeared in 1959. So, is it a platform or just an add-in app?

 

[Chuck(G)]

Add in app? In 1959, more than a few systems ran with no supervisor/monitor/etc. You read the RPG compiler in from cards. Disks were expensive; tape drives less so; but there were many installations that were exclusively card.

Read about 1401 4K RPG here

RPG was a step up from assembly/autocoder, whcih was itself a step up from machine code (yes, people actually programmed straight machine code back then).

 

[Agent Orange]

Add in app? In 1959, more than a few systems ran with no supervisor/monitor/etc. You read the RPG compiler in from cards. Disks were expensive; tape drives less so; but there were many installations that were exclusively card.

Read about 1401 4K RPG here

RPG was a step up from assembly/autocoder, whcih was itself a step up from machine code (yes, people actually programmed straight machine code back then).

Okay on those points. Did Unix find much use on the AS/400 back then?

 

[whartung]

Okay on those points. Did Unix find much use on the AS/400 back then?

Unix is an operating system, the AS/400 is a computer system identified more so by it's operating system (which is almost, but not quite, completely unlike Unix).

Could a Unix have run on AS/400 hardware? I can't say. Unlikely. IBM didn't make "generic hardware", they made systems. There may well have been some commonality between the hardware in their AS/400 systems and their other Unix based systems. But any chance of loading one OS on another machine, I think, is quite unlikely.

To be clear, the hardware is not what makes the AS/400 stand out. It's the operating environment. With Unix boxes, since the Unix was, mostly, "generic", folks would buy hardware that happened to run Unix to solve their problems. The hardware that ran Unix was from a vast array of manufacturers and capability. From lowly white box PCs to huge cabinets gorged with multi processors and disk arrays.

The AS/400 was a line of computer systems running OS/400. Today it's the iSeries. The OS/400 is spectacularly unlike Unix, and it's OS/400 that makes the machines stand out.

 

[Agent Orange]

Unix is an operating system, the AS/400 is a computer system identified more so by it's operating system (which is almost, but not quite, completely unlike Unix).

Could a Unix have run on AS/400 hardware? I can't say. Unlikely. IBM didn't make "generic hardware", they made systems. There may well have been some commonality between the hardware in their AS/400 systems and their other Unix based systems. But any chance of loading one OS on another machine, I think, is quite unlikely.

To be clear, the hardware is not what makes the AS/400 stand out. It's the operating environment. With Unix boxes, since the Unix was, mostly, "generic", folks would buy hardware that happened to run Unix to solve their problems. The hardware that ran Unix was from a vast array of manufacturers and capability. From lowly white box PCs to huge cabinets gorged with multi processors and disk arrays.

The AS/400 was a line of computer systems running OS/400. Today it's the iSeries. The OS/400 is spectacularly unlike Unix, and it's OS/400 that makes the machines stand out.

Okay. I beginning to see the light as the author of the the article must be referring to AS/400 capabilities running RPG (I)(II)(III) as opposed to Unix on someone else's platform. Also, I presume it is out of the question that RPG would run on anything other than IBM.

Thank you all for indulging.

 

[cruff]

Wikipedia says some RPG work alike packages ran on other platforms, including various Unix variants, but the article doesn't point to anything specific.

 

[whartung]

Also, I presume it is out of the question that RPG would run on anything other than IBM.

No, there's no reason RPG can't run in other platform.

It's not a systems programming language for IBM architectures, it's a report writing system. It's closer to COBOL than anything else.

Where everyone else went BASIC, IBM went RPG, so it was the go to tool for folks writing solutions on IBM hardware.

 

[Agent Orange]

No, there's no reason RPG can't run in other platform.

It's not a systems programming language for IBM architectures, it's a report writing system. It's closer to COBOL than anything else.

Where everyone else went BASIC, IBM went RPG, so it was the go to tool for folks writing solutions on IBM hardware.

Must be fairly viable to hang around this long although it seems to have evolved tp keep pace with the times.

 

[Jimmy]

Most IBM iSeries application are still written in RPG/400 or RPGLE I guess is the correct trade name. Enterprise Rent a Car, Carnival Cruise Lines are several of the larger companies who use iSeries. Jack Henry and Associates the 3rd largest provider of banking software has over 1,000 community banks using software written in RPG.

 

[robcarnegie]

Okay. I beginning to see the light as the author of the the article must be referring to AS/400 capabilities running RPG (I)(II)(III) as opposed to Unix on someone else's platform. Also, I presume it is out of the question that RPG would run on anything other than IBM.

We had RPG on the Honeywell systems I worked on in 1979-1986 timeframe. We used COBOL for all interactive software and RPG for reports. We also had RPG on Cincinnati Milacron and Wang systems. It was more efficient than COBOL for report writing as the code would be less than half as long. I regularly ported RPG code from those systems to IBM systems with little or no modifications.

 

[Agent Orange]

We had RPG on the Honeywell systems I worked on in 1979-1986 timeframe. We used COBOL for all interactive software and RPG for reports. We also had RPG on Cincinnati Milacron and Wang systems. It was more efficient than COBOL for report writing as the code would be less than half as long. I regularly ported RPG code from those systems to IBM systems with little or no modifications.

Just curious as you said you worked at Cincinnati Milacron. Would that be the old Cincinnati Mill in Oakley? Several of my mother's side of the family worked there. One uncle did time study for about 40 years and a cousin was a field rep who wore a suite and had to put a jumpsuit on when troubleshooting with the union folks - not allowed to touch.

 

[tingo]

FWIW, Norsk Data had RPG II available for their machines.

 

[Jimmy]

Burroughs had an RPG II compiler for their Small and Medium Systems. There was also a Dos version of RPG II as will and the SEU editor.

 

[Agent Orange]

Burroughs had an RPG II compiler for their Small and Medium Systems. There was also a Dos version of RPG II as will and the SEU editor.

Jimmy:

Glad to see that you're back. Hope all is going well with you and yours.

Tom

 

[Jimmy]

Tom:

Thank you I have been under the weather since last March of 2020, Glad to be able to find time to enjoy a few things again.

 

[robcarnegie]

Just curious as you said you worked at Cincinnati Milacron. Would that be the old Cincinnati Mill in Oakley? Several of my mother's side of the family worked there. One uncle did time study for about 40 years and a cousin was a field rep who wore a suite and had to put a jumpsuit on when troubleshooting with the union folks - not allowed to touch.

No, Cincinnati Milacron was a computer manufacturer in the late 1970’s. They still exist but they no longer make computers. They currently produce technology and tools that support the manufacturing industry and are a huge multinational corporation. They do business as Milacron (having mostly dropped the “Cincinnati” portion of their name) but they still have their offices in the Summit Park neighborhood of Cincinnati.

 

[Gary C]

No, Cincinnati Milacron was a computer manufacturer in the late 1970’s. They still exist but they no longer make computers. They currently produce technology and tools that support the manufacturing industry and are a huge multinational corporation. They do business as Milacron (having mostly dropped the “Cincinnati” portion of their name) but they still have their offices in the Summit Park neighborhood of Cincinnati.

We had a big Cincinnati Milacron driven Lathe at college at the start of the 80's. Was a bit of a beast that us lowly apprentices were not allowed to even contemplate touching.

 

[robcarnegie]

We had a big Cincinnati Milacron driven Lathe at college at the start of the 80's. Was a bit of a beast that us lowly apprentices were not allowed to even contemplate touching.

In the early days of computing there was quite a long waiting list to get a computer from a large manufacturer like IBM, Sperry, Burroughs, Ferranti, etc. Engineering staff at Cincinnati Milacron felt they had the expertise needed to build computers in house. They built them so that they were code compatible with an IBM computer. They were so happy with the result that they proceeded to manufacture and sell them. At some point they decided they didn’t want to be in this business anymore and simply stopped building and supporting the computers. They went back to manufacturing equipment and controllers and later even build assembly line robots. The purchasers of the computers produced by Cincinnati Milacron actually banded together and successfully sued them. For a while they were kind of an abject example what not to do in the computer industry.