Forum Rules and Etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.

Rule 1: Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.

Rule 2: Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.

Rule 3: Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.

Rule 4: "PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.

Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Rule 5: Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.

Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.

New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.

Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
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IBM Hard Drive type 0665

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    IBM Hard Drive type 0665

    I acquired an IBM hard drive type 0665. It's a FH drive made in Havant, England. When I tried searching for the parameters for this drive, I came across 3 different type 0665s. There's a 0665-30 (20M), 0665-38 (30M) and a 0665-53 (44M). Can anyone tell me how I can identify which 0665 this drive is? It only says it's a type 0665. There is an additional label on the machine that has this number: ESP 177-38. I don't know if the -38 on this label means that it is a 0665-38. Can anyone provide any other info to id the drive?

    Additional info: I tried it as a 20M (type 2 in AT setup) and it fdisked and formatted fine. I then tried it as a 30M (type 8 in AT setup) and it also fdisked and formatted fine so I believe it is actually a type 0665-38. It came out of an 8Mhz PCAT so it makes sense that it would be a 30M drive.
    Last edited by strollin; June 26, 2009, 03:31 PM.

    The 0665 used in the IBM AT was 30 MB is size and a type 20 (733 cyl, 5 heads, WPC of 300, 17 SPT --> 30 MB).
    IBM put a white sticker on them that contained the defect track list and the number "20".
    Therefore, the presence of that "20" on your 0665 will indicate the 30 MB version.


      That makes sense and there is a "20" on the track defect list but I had no idea what the "20" meant. Thanks modem7.


        I just 'found' one of these in my stuff I was looking through for something else. If anyone wants yhis drive, PM me as I rarely check this particular forum.
        PM me if you're looking for 3" or 5" floppy disks. EMail For everything else, Take Another Step


          I have one of these in my 5170. It was used for about 15 years as a door stop in the IT department where I used to work - I took it home, and it's been working faultlessly in my AT for nearly two years now

          If you have the later 8MHz AT mainboard, the drive is configured as a a 30MB "Type 20".


            Originally posted by dongfeng View Post
            I have one of these in my 5170. It was used for about 15 years as a door stop in the IT department where I used to work - I took it home, and it's been working faultlessly in my AT for nearly two years now
            Those dents in the top suggest a hard life.

            Originally posted by dongfeng View Post
            If you have the later 8MHz AT mainboard, the drive is configured as a a 30MB "Type 20".
            Actually, one 5170 motherboard revision earlier:

            Type 1 motherboard (6 Mhz, BIOS = 01/10/84) - No support
            Type 2 motherboard (6 Mhz, BIOS = 06/10/85) - Yes
            Type 3 motherboard (8 Mhz, BIOS = 11/15/85) - Yes



              Would 0665 work in an IBM 5160 or compatible XT?


                Originally posted by tonata View Post
                Would 0665 work in an IBM 5160 or compatible XT?
                In XT-class computers, the motherboard BIOS has no support for hard drives, instead, the support being in the XT-class hard disk controller.
                So what is needed is an XT-class hard disk controller that supports your particular IBM 0665.
                See [here] and [here].

                IBM 0665-30 = IBM type 2 = 615/4/17 ('30' is the unformatted capacity)
                IBM 0665-38 = IBM type 20 = 733/5/17 ('38' is the unformatted capacity)
                IBM 0665-53 = IBM type 21 = 733/7/17 ('53' is the unformatted capacity)