Difference between "ATI EGA WONDER" and "ATI EGA WONDER 800(+)"???

[digger]

Difference between "ATI EGA WONDER" and "ATI EGA WONDER 800(+)"???

Hello everyone,

Could someone with good knowledge of EGA cards (and ATI EGA cards in particular) perhaps tell me the difference between the following cards:

• ATI EGA WONDER
• ATI EGA WONDER 800
• ATI EGA WONDER 800+

On sites like stason.org and TH99 I can only find information and dipswitch/jumper settings on three revisions of the regular ATI EGA WONDER (version 2, version 2.3, or no version number), but nothing on an EGA WONDER 800 or an EGA WONDER 800+.

What's the deal? Thanks.

 

[Chromedome45]

I think it has to do with Maximum resolution such as 800 x 600 instead of standard EGA resolution of 640 x 350. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[digger]

I think it has to do with Maximum resolution such as 800 x 600 instead of standard EGA resolution of 640 x 350. Just my 2 cents worth.

As far as I could find, all EGA Wonder cards actually support resolutions higher than 640x350 standard EGA, provided that the proper monitor is used. I suspect that the "EGA WONDER version 2" may be the 800, and the "EGA WONDER version 2.3" may then very well be the 800+. But I haven't been able to verify that anywhere.

Anybody else with EGA expertise who could chime in?

 

[MikeS]

As far as I could find, all EGA Wonder cards actually support resolutions higher than 640x350 standard EGA, provided that the proper monitor is used. I suspect that the "EGA WONDER version 2" may be the 800, and the "EGA WONDER version 2.3" may then very well be the 800+. But I haven't been able to verify that anywhere.

Anybody else with EGA expertise who could chime in?

I can't locate my 800+ at the moment, but I do just happen to have a 'regular' EGA Wonder in front of me (although the box has a sticker on it saying "New and ENHANCED - VGA Compatible Modes 11,12"

FWIW, the board is REV 1, the BIOS is V 3.05 and the board, manual, and diskette files are all dated 1987.

And yes, with a multi-sync monitor it does support 800/600/16 (as well as about 20 other modes).

BTW, for folks who think it only works with an EGA monitor, it also works with a CGA, TTL Mono, Composite (yes, one of the RCA jacks *IS* composite, unlike the 'real' EGA card), 25KHz, and a Multisync, although of course not all modes work with all monitors.

 

[digger]

BTW, for folks who think it only works with an EGA monitor, it also works with a CGA, TTL Mono, Composite (yes, one of the RCA jacks *IS* composite, unlike the 'real' EGA card), 25KHz, and a Multisync, although of course not all modes work with all monitors.

And the 25kHz support is specifically what I am interested in. However: in my particular case, the card must also support inverted (negative) horizontal (and vertical?) sync in addition to 25kHz. Does the manual that comes with that card also mention this feature?

(And are you even selling that card, by the way? )

Inverted sync (in addition to 25kHz) appears to be supported by at least the "version 2.3" EGA Wonder, the STB Multires, and the Packard Bell PBEGA PLUS:

• http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/graphics-cards/A-B/ATI-TECHNOLOGIES-INC-EGA-EGA-WONDER-VER-2-3.html
• http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/graphics-cards/S-T/STB-SYSTEMS-INC-EGA-MULTI-RES-W-PARALLEL-PORT.html
• http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/graphics-cards/P-R/PACKARD-BELL-Monochrome-CGA-EGA-VGA-PBEGA-PLUS.html

Particularly in the first link (describing the version 2.3 EGA Wonder), pay close attention to the footnote that reads "Note: When using a Taxan 650 type 25 kHz monitor you must set jumper P8/pins 2 & 3 closed." This is not mentioned in the Stason/TH99 page describing the other EGA Wonder variants. (version 2 or just plain no version).

 

[MikeS]

Hadn't really thought about selling it; what's it worth?

Doesn't look like there's an inverted sync option; no J8, no mention in the manual. Doesn't quite match any of the three versions in the TH99 BTW.

 

[digger]

Hmmm... Better not risk it, then. I really need that feature for the specific machine and monitor I plan to use it for.

If you find your 800+ and/or its manual, could you also check if that one does support inverted sync? After all, it is a more recent model.

Even if you don't plan on selling that one, at least I'll know whether to look for that model or not.

Thanks!

 

[digger]

Time for a gentle thread bump, since I'm still looking for the (right) ATI EGA Wonder card. I'll post a wanted ad in the marketplace, but first I still need to know if the "version 2.3" (as escribed on stason/TH99) and the 800(+?) are the same card. Anybody who can shed some light on this? Thanks.

 

[per]

Time for a gentle thread bump, since I'm still looking for the (right) ATI EGA Wonder card. I'll post a wanted ad in the marketplace, but first I still need to know if the "version 2.3" (as escribed on stason/TH99) and the 800(+?) are the same card. Anybody who can shed some light on this? Thanks.

It depends on the BIOS. IIRC, both the original EGA wonder and EGA wonder 800/+ were using a chipset from "Chips technologies", and I think they are in fact quite software-compatible. I may be wrong though...

What I can confirm is that the VGA wonders are compatible with the EGA wonder 800+ BIOS.

 

[H-A-L-9000]

The presence of a suitable oscillator on the card also plays a role.

 

[kishy]

I don't know if it helps at all, but I have this.

I couldn't identify which it is for sure, but the card says 800.

Working condition not known but if someone can guide me through figuring out if it does (I don't have an EGA monitor available), I'll make it available to interested people for best offer over $5. I can't use it so the value to me is just the time and effort to send it off to someone who can benefit.

 

[MikeS]

I don't know if it helps at all, but I have this.

I couldn't identify which it is for sure, but the card says 800.

Working condition not known but if someone can guide me through figuring out if it does (I don't have an EGA monitor available), I'll make it available to interested people for best offer over $5. I can't use it so the value to me is just the time and effort to send it off to someone who can benefit.

I might be interested, depending on what kind of other offers you get.

Have you got any 9-pin monitors at all?
What are the jumper labels?

 

[kishy]

I'll get the info in here later, no promises of even today though. Life's getting in the way atm.

No monitors pre-SVGA in the house, and I've made a rule of preventing that changing. However if one of those RCA jacks outputs something suitable for a TV...

 

[digger]

Do you still have that card, kishy?

Do you still have that card, kishy?

According to this site, the ATI EGA WONDER 800 should also support 25KHz monitors. That site mentions part number 16900, the card in your picture has P/N 16902 printed on the PCB right above the ISA connector. Close enough.

Therefore I might be interested in your card. If you haven't sold it yet, what is the highest bid you've had so far?

 

[digger]

The EGA Wonder 800+ (with a plus) is a very different card than the regular 800!

The EGA Wonder 800+ (with a plus) is a very different card than the regular 800!

Hi everyone!

I haven't been active on this forum for a while. Happy Holidays, and the best of wishes for the coming year!

Anyway, an ATI EGA Wonder 800+ card recently appeared on eBay, and the seller made some clear pictures that provided some useful clues.

Apparently, ATI didn't bother to redesign the box for the 800+, and just kept using the 800 box, but with sticker with an addendum, apparently pointing out the differences between the 800 and the 800+:

EGAWONDER800+

- Enhanced and Redesigned​

New Features: 800x600 in 16 colors, Register Compatible VGA modes 11 & 12, Switchless Installations, Menu Driven Software Utilities, Proprietary ATI chip design.
Does not support: Composite, 25kHz, or internal monitors; light pen and RF modulator, feature connector.

ATI Technologies Inc.
3761 Victoria Park Ave., Scarborough, Ontario, Canada M1W 3S2
Telex: 06-966640 (ATI TOR) Tel: (416) 756-0711 Fax: (416) 756-0720​

The part number of the ATI EGA Wonder 800+ seems to be "PN 109006000".

The "Proprietary ATI chip design" mentioned in the list of new features is confirmed on the picture of the card itself, which shows a main chip with an ATI logo on it, as opposed to a Chips & Technologies chip that apparently forms the basis of the older ATI EGA Wonder 800 (without the plus).

Also, the regular 800 has jumpers, whereas the 800+ is both completely "switchless" and jumperless.

The lack of 25kHz support in the 800+ makes it unsuitable for use with the 640x400 monitors that come with AT&T 6300 or Olivetti M24 machines. The regular 800 (without the plus) is supposed to support 25kHz, however.

I'm placing the pictures from the eBay auction in this message for future (historic) reference. I will also be adding this information to the wiki at http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showwiki.php?title=Hardware:ATi+Wonder+Series

 

[per]

The EGA-Wonder 800+ is actually just a VGA-EDGE without the cirquits or BIOS support for actual VGA. It uses the same chipset as the VGA Wonder, instead of the Chips&Tech chipset of the eariler EGA Wonders.

 

[mikey99]

modem7 has the scanned ATI EGA Wonder manuals on his site at the following link :

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/manuals/

EGA Wonder 800+ Operation Manual (1st Edition, April 1989).pdf
EGA Wonder Operation Manual (Edition 2.3, January 1988).pdf

 

[digger]

Awesome! I found the manuals on that site through Google.

However, I've been unable to find the manual for the regular EGA Wonder 800 (without the plus). Apparently, that card also still has the Chips & Technologies chipset, and still supports 25kHz.

Does anybody know what the difference is between the EGA Wonder v2.3 and the EGA Wonder 800 (without the plus)? Does anybody have the manual for it?

Thanks again, everyone.