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This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

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New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
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My Latest Buy (5160)

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    #16
    Originally posted by modem7 View Post
    In classing what is physical and what is electrical in an interface, isn't protocol in the electrical class?
    I see your point. The thing is that when I hear "eletrical difference", I start to think that it uses a different voltage or something like that.
    Current systems owned by me:
    Vintage:IBM PC/XT submodel 087 ( 1983 ), [Kon]tiki-100 rev. C (1983), Compaq Portable I ( 1984 ), IBM PC/XT submodel 078 ( 1985 ), IBM PC/XT286 ( ~1986 ), 3x Nintendo Entertainement Systems ( 1987 ).
    Obsolete:Commodore A500 ( ~1990 ), IBM PS/2 model 70/386 type 8570-161 ( 1991 ), Atari Lynx II ( ~1992 ), Generic Intel 486SX PC ( ~1993 ), AT/T Globalyst Pentium w/FDIV bug MB ( 1994 ), Compaq 486DX4 laptop ( ~1995 ).

    Comment


      #17
      Can I use this in my computer?
      http://cgi.ebay.com/Zenith-150-307-3...ht_3896wt_1139
      Would I need any drivers or such to use it, too?

      And I assume, since this says "PS/2," that it will NOT work with my XT?
      http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-IBM-CLIC...ht_3788wt_1139

      Thanks guys!

      Kyle

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by antiquekid3 View Post
        Can I use this in my computer?
        http://cgi.ebay.com/Zenith-150-307-3...ht_3896wt_1139
        Would I need any drivers or such to use it, too?

        And I assume, since this says "PS/2," that it will NOT work with my XT?
        http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-IBM-CLIC...ht_3788wt_1139

        Thanks guys!

        Kyle
        EGA/VGA cards usually has their drivers stored as a BIOS extension in a ROM chip located on the card itself. Note that this is only a BIOS-level driver, so programs using their own low-level driver-system will need a custom driver to take full usage of that spesific card. Generic EGA/VGA drivers should however work in that case, but the card will only do the standard EGA/VGA functions then.

        Regarding the keyboard, some Model M keyboards can autodetect if it's being used in an XT or AT, and then choose the correct protocoll. There was a list on the Model M article on Wikipedia some time ago stating what Model M keyboards did and didn't do this, but I don't know if it has been removed by now.
        Last edited by per; June 15, 2010, 12:45 PM.
        Current systems owned by me:
        Vintage:IBM PC/XT submodel 087 ( 1983 ), [Kon]tiki-100 rev. C (1983), Compaq Portable I ( 1984 ), IBM PC/XT submodel 078 ( 1985 ), IBM PC/XT286 ( ~1986 ), 3x Nintendo Entertainement Systems ( 1987 ).
        Obsolete:Commodore A500 ( ~1990 ), IBM PS/2 model 70/386 type 8570-161 ( 1991 ), Atari Lynx II ( ~1992 ), Generic Intel 486SX PC ( ~1993 ), AT/T Globalyst Pentium w/FDIV bug MB ( 1994 ), Compaq 486DX4 laptop ( ~1995 ).

        Comment


          #19
          That PS/2 KB will work. You may need PS/2 adapter from your favorite computer store or get it online. Just about all of the lastest mobo's support standard PS/2 mouse and keyboard connectors. Some, however, are going strictly USB to save a penny or two.
          Surely not everyone was Kung-Fu fighting

          Comment


            #20
            How can I be certain that this Model M (1391401) will work with an XT? The Wikipedia article seems to indicate it is just a PS/2 and AT keyboard. Just confirming...

            Kyle

            Comment


              #21
              Check the Vintage Forum for the AT/XT keyboard converter project. If you can't find it, send a PM to HARGLE.
              Surely not everyone was Kung-Fu fighting

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by antiquekid3 View Post
                Can I use this in my computer?
                http://cgi.ebay.com/Zenith-150-307-3...ht_3896wt_1139
                Would I need any drivers or such to use it, too?
                I have one of those Heath Zenith EGA/VGA cards and even though I've never actually tried it.....
                I'm pretty sure it is only capable of EGA graphics when attached to a VGA monitor.
                That card is probably worth about $10 max.
                There were some discussions about this card in the forum awhile back.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by antiquekid3 View Post
                  How can I be certain that this Model M (1391401) will work with an XT? The Wikipedia article seems to indicate it is just a PS/2 and AT keyboard. Just confirming...

                  Kyle
                  Not sure what Agent Orange was thinking of, but that PS/2 keyboard will almost certainly NOT work with your XT; might be worth buying anyway though to use with your more modern PC if it doesn't go much higher .

                  Comment


                    #24
                    There are Model Ms that were intended for the XT-286 that are XT and AT autosensing, but they're rare (I have one! ) and use an AT (DIN, not MINI-DIN) rather than PS/2 connector.

                    I don't typically offer to sell keyboards, as I'm a big keyboard fan/collector, but I have a Keytronics XT keyboard that's damn near identical to the keyboard for the 5150/5160, an obvious clone of it... I can pop it onto my 5160 and give it a test drive and then will sell it to you if you make a persuasive enough offer provided it's fully functional.

                    Oh, and congratulations - the 5160 is a nice machine.
                    More commonly known as "Yushatak" - www.yushatak.com
                    Focused on 486 and Pentium Machines
                    I collect All-In-One PCs and Keyboard PCs, especially Compaq.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Raven View Post
                      There are Model Ms that were intended for the XT-286 that are XT and AT autosensing, but they're rare (I have one! ) and use an AT (DIN, not MINI-DIN) rather than PS/2 connector.

                      I don't typically offer to sell keyboards, as I'm a big keyboard fan/collector, but I have a Keytronics XT keyboard that's damn near identical to the keyboard for the 5150/5160, an obvious clone of it... I can pop it onto my 5160 and give it a test drive and then will sell it to you if you make a persuasive enough offer provided it's fully functional.

                      Oh, and congratulations - the 5160 is a nice machine.
                      I got a Model M from a PS/2 model 70 made in 1991, with a deattachable ps/2 connector which does autodetect if it's being used in an XT or AT class machine. It's obivous that everybody have different oppinions on this topic, so we should try to do some research on what submodels of Model Ms that does what. Our Wiki is a perfect place for a table where the results are placed.
                      Current systems owned by me:
                      Vintage:IBM PC/XT submodel 087 ( 1983 ), [Kon]tiki-100 rev. C (1983), Compaq Portable I ( 1984 ), IBM PC/XT submodel 078 ( 1985 ), IBM PC/XT286 ( ~1986 ), 3x Nintendo Entertainement Systems ( 1987 ).
                      Obsolete:Commodore A500 ( ~1990 ), IBM PS/2 model 70/386 type 8570-161 ( 1991 ), Atari Lynx II ( ~1992 ), Generic Intel 486SX PC ( ~1993 ), AT/T Globalyst Pentium w/FDIV bug MB ( 1994 ), Compaq 486DX4 laptop ( ~1995 ).

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Many (most?) 16-bit VGA cards will work in an 8-bit slot. I noticed that the asking price for 8-bit VGA cards has gone way up on EBay, many were asking $150+!!! The 16-bit cards are much more reasonable, around $25 or so.

                        XT type keyboards are getting harder to find. The AT/XT converter would probably be a good solution for you.

                        The VGA card will allow you to use a modern monitor and the AT/XT Converter would let you use a modern keyboard. Might make a purist cringe but will get you up and running with your 5160.
                        Last edited by strollin; June 16, 2010, 10:55 AM.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by per View Post
                          I got a Model M from a PS/2 model 70 made in 1991, with a deattachable ps/2 connector which does autodetect if it's being used in an XT or AT class machine. It's obivous that everybody have different oppinions on this topic, so we should try to do some research on what submodels of Model Ms that does what. Our Wiki is a perfect place for a table where the results are placed.
                          Well, a good start would be if you and Raven would share with us the model numbers of your XT/AT compatible model M's, whether they have LEDs, whether *all* keys work correctly on a PC/XT, etc....

                          I was pretty sure that my -1401 does not work on a PC/XT, but it also dates from '91 so maybe my memory is fooling me (again ); my 4 years older -0131 might, but I haven't tried it (and it's not the model we're talking about anyway).

                          So, what are the model numbers of those auto-sensing babies of yours?
                          Last edited by MikeS; June 16, 2010, 11:17 AM.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by MikeS View Post
                            Well, a good start would be if you and Raven would share with us the model numbers of your XT/AT compatible model M's, whether they have LEDs, whether *all* keys work correctly on a PC/XT, etc....

                            I was pretty sure that my -1401 does not work on a PC/XT, but it also dates from '91 so maybe my memory is fooling me (again ); my 4 years older -0131 might, but I haven't tried it (and it's not the model we're talking about anyway).

                            So, what are the model numbers of those auto-sensing babies of yours?
                            The keyboard has LEDs, and Norwegian/Danish key-layout. It also has this deattachable cable, which curently has a PS/2 connector.

                            The big numbers on the label is "1391409". Under it, it says "1387628 EC 528771" to the rigth for both therse number it also says "55-0321520F", "EC 528771" and "1991-11-11". even more rigth; "0123 2" is written vertically. Under all of this is a barcode and some manufacturing info.

                            When used in an XT, the LEDS quickly flashes on startup before turning off. After this, they remains off all the time. All regular keys works just like on an normal XT/PC-class keyboard. F11 don't do anything, but for some reason; F12 returns the scancode of "FE" (or something like that). It's importaint to not move the deattachable cable because any "noise" on the keyboard signal lines will kick the keyboard into AT-mode.
                            Last edited by per; June 16, 2010, 12:56 PM.
                            Current systems owned by me:
                            Vintage:IBM PC/XT submodel 087 ( 1983 ), [Kon]tiki-100 rev. C (1983), Compaq Portable I ( 1984 ), IBM PC/XT submodel 078 ( 1985 ), IBM PC/XT286 ( ~1986 ), 3x Nintendo Entertainement Systems ( 1987 ).
                            Obsolete:Commodore A500 ( ~1990 ), IBM PS/2 model 70/386 type 8570-161 ( 1991 ), Atari Lynx II ( ~1992 ), Generic Intel 486SX PC ( ~1993 ), AT/T Globalyst Pentium w/FDIV bug MB ( 1994 ), Compaq 486DX4 laptop ( ~1995 ).

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by per View Post
                              ...The big numbers on the label is "1391409". Under it, it says "1387628 EC 528771" to the rigth for both therse number it also says "55-0321520F", "EC 528771" and "1991-11-11". even more rigth; "0123 2" is written vertically. Under all of this is a barcode and some manufacturing info...
                              Hmm, almost suggests that maybe it's a Danish version of a -1401; maybe the eBay one is dual-mode after all. Anybody got a 1391401 to test and make sure (other than me who can't get at a PC/XT at the moment)?

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Check this thread out.

                                http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcfo...nverter/page19
                                Surely not everyone was Kung-Fu fighting

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