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IBM 5170 Battery - Yet Again

Shadow Lord

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Okay I have reviewed the info in the Wiki and looked at the info on this page. It seems as if the 3.6v Tadiran battery shown in the Wiki may not be the best suited battery. Therefore, I am going to use a 6V battery. However, there is no mention of the importance of the resistor. Is one needed? What does it exactly do, and should I bother soldering one in on the battery leads. Thanks!
 
According to this post it is speculated that the resistor prolongs the life of the battery. Any guesses as to how long? i.e. will it double it, triple it or just extend it by a few days? I may just go ahead and put in the resistor just to be on the safe side.
 
Why not just put 4 alkaline AA batteries in a holder and jack it into the board? That's what I do when I run out of the 3.6V barrel nicad replacements.

That would require me to have a battery holder just sitting around. :D Honestly, the time it would take to find a battery holder, purchase it, solder on the wires isn't worth the $5 + tax that would cost me for a 6V lithium ion battery. Yeah it maybe cheaper (although I really doubt it when you take into account the cost of the actual batteries as well) but this is easier!

My main concern was the resistor and if it was absolutely required or I could just go ahead and plug in a 6V battery.
 
I'm interested about the resistor, as I replaced the original 6v battery of a 5170 with a 'DURACELL 6 VOLT LITHIUM BATTERY' (DL245) and it retains the configuration, but the clock doesn't run when the system is powered off. It always shows 163 error at power up, I run gsetup and the error dissapears until next power off /on cycle.
 
The resistor is not a requirement. It does drop some voltage, but without it, a new 6 volt Lithium is tollerated by the 5170 motherboard. I've had no problems using resistor-less 6 volt batteries.

A 163 error is a 'Time & Date not set' error. That error apears after the first part of SETUP configuration is done (memory size, hard drive type, etc.) but not the second part (date/time). I would expect GSETUP to correct that, but I've encountered issues with GSETUP. Have you tried the 5170 Diagnostics Disk? You can also try the following BASIC code:

REM Initialise A/B/C/D registers
REM and prepare for imminent setting of the clock
out 112,10
out 113,38
out 112,11
out 113,130
out 112,12
a = inp(113)
out 112,13
a = inp(113)
REM ----------------------
REM Set hour:minute:second to 19:00:00
out 112,0
out 113,0
out 112,2
out 113,0
out 112,4
out 113,25
REM ----------------------
REM Set day of week to 3 (where 1=Sunday)
out 112,6
out 113,3
REM ----------------------
REM Set date to 13Sep2011
out 112,7
out 113,19
out 112,8
out 113,9
out 112,9
out 113,17
out 112,50
out 113,32
REM ----------------------
REM Clock has been set - enable updates
out 112,11
out 113,2
 
That would require me to have a battery holder just sitting around. :D Honestly, the time it would take to find a battery holder, purchase it, solder on the wires isn't worth the $5 + tax that would cost me for a 6V lithium ion battery. Yeah it maybe cheaper (although I really doubt it when you take into account the cost of the actual batteries as well) but this is easier!

My main concern was the resistor and if it was absolutely required or I could just go ahead and plug in a 6V battery.

They're on the shelf at Radio Shack - not expensive.
 
You know, there are plenty of RC applications that use a 3.6V or 4.5V NiCd/NiMh pack, as well as quite a number of wireless phones. Batteries can be had on eBay for as little as $3 or less shipped Search for:

3.6V (NiCd,NiMh)
 
The resistor is not a requirement. It does drop some voltage, but without it, a new 6 volt Lithium is tollerated by the 5170 motherboard. I've had no problems using resistor-less 6 volt batteries.

A 163 error is a 'Time & Date not set' error. That error apears after the first part of SETUP configuration is done (memory size, hard drive type, etc.) but not the second part (date/time). I would expect GSETUP to correct that, but I've encountered issues with GSETUP. Have you tried the 5170 Diagnostics Disk? You can also try the following BASIC code:

I tried that basic program but it didn't solve the problem. The battery is new and reads 6.02v when plugged.
 
I tried that basic program but it didn't solve the problem. The battery is new and reads 6.02v when plugged.
Obviously a possibility is that the motherboard is faulty.

If you are up to measuring voltage on the motherboard:

Turn off power for about 5 minutes.
Then, what voltage do you measure on pin 24 of the CMOS/RTC chip - the MC146818 ?
Because the two blocking diodes (CR1 and CR2) together consistently drop about 0.8V, I'm expecting that you will measure about 5.2V (your 6.0 minus 0.8).
Per the diagram below, the same voltage should be on pin 14 of the MC14069.

5170_battery_circuitry.jpg


24_pin_dil.jpg
 
Turn off power for about 5 minutes.
Then, what voltage do you measure on pin 24 of the CMOS/RTC chip - the MC146818 ?
Because the two blocking diodes (CR1 and CR2) together consistently drop about 0.8V, I'm expecting that you will measure about 5.2V (your 6.0 minus 0.8).


Pin 24 of the MC146818 has 5.04 volts. I can't see the MC14069, maybe it is covered somewhere under the hard disk...
 
Last edited:
Pin 24 of the MC146818 has 5.04 volts.
Just confirming. You measured that with the power supply turned off, correct?

I can't see the MC14069, maybe it is covered somewhere under the hard disk...
On a type 1 board, the MC14069 is right next to the MC146818.
On types 2 and 3 boards, the MC14069 is half way between the MC146818 and slot 8.

The MC14069 and immediate circuitry supply the clock signal to the MC146818 (on pin 2), when the board is both powered and unpowered. That clock signal is what ticks the clock in the MC146818.

In normal 5170 operation, the battery voltage slowly decreases over many months. When it drops to to the point where the voltage on pin 14 of the MC14069 is about 3 volts (the minimum voltage spec for the MC14069), the MC146818 starts to stop 'ticking' for short periods when running off battery. As the battery voltage falls further, those non-ticking periods get longer, and users typically report something like, "Before, my computer was only losing short periods of time, but now is losing lots more time."
 
Sorry to resurrect this old thread of mine but can anyone tell me what is the resistor value on the battery as depicted on modem7's site? I've tried guessing it but the picture is just too small. Thanks!
 
Sorry to resurrect this old thread of mine but can anyone tell me what is the resistor value on the battery as depicted on modem7's site? I've tried guessing it but the picture is just too small. Thanks!
I measured the resistor on that particular battery. It measured 18K ohms.

The resistor on a very different 6V battery that I have, measured 10K ohms.
 
I measured the resistor on that particular battery. It measured 18K ohms.

The resistor on a very different 6V battery that I have, measured 10K ohms.

Thanks for the information. I had a 15K resistor laying around and I used that. So far so good. My 6V battery is holding time/date even after being unplugged overnight. Hopefully, it will prolong the battery life past the 5 year limit....
 
Hopefully, it will prolong the battery life past the 5 year limit....
The use of the resistor results in the voltage at the motherboard battery connector being less than the battery voltage.

It could be that IBM's intent was not to prolong battery life, but to ensure that the voltage at the MC146818 chip did not exceed the chip's maximum rated voltage. An 'advance information' datasheet on the MC146818 indicates "3V to 6V Operation". IBM, knowing that a new 6 volt Lithium battery measures about 7 volts, and knowing that the combination of diodes CR1 and CR2 on a 5170 motherboard drops less than a volt, may have decided to play safe by using a resistor to effectively drop battery voltage.

Later, they may have removed the resistor after learning that the MC146818 chip can deal with more than 6 volts - something else in the 'advance information' datasheet suggests that 8 volts is the true maximum.

All speculation.
 
Later, they may have removed the resistor after learning that the MC146818 chip can deal with more than 6 volts - something else in the 'advance information' datasheet suggests that 8 volts is the true maximum.

All speculation.

I can verify that on my IBM 7532 industrial PC w/ the original IBM battery in place there is no resistor. Whatever the reason I have it installed w/ the resistor so at worst I am doing no harm. :)
 
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