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running 5x86 cpu in IBM 5150 with Inboard/386

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    #1

    running 5x86 cpu in IBM 5150 with Inboard/386

    hello
    Here is some news in my slowly ongoing hobby - of making the most out of the old 5150 motherboard.
    In marts 2015 i did run 486 with inboard 386/pc in a pc-clone. (*1)
    And cyrix 5x86 were the logic goal for this upgrade. But i had to acquire an cyrix 586 cpu and a VRM (voltage-regulator-modul).
    Took some time to get the right product at the right price , and i did read some PDF's about the 486 cpu.(http://datasheets.chipdb.org/IBM/x86/486/)
    My only notice were that Cyrix 586 do not like signal on J1 pin, and therefore made a socket extension with no connection on the J1 pin.
    The hardware upgrade is made of :
    IBM 5150 motherboard
    Inboard 386/pc, 386+387 removed
    extension sockets 132 pin (to make clearance for the RAM add on card)
    transcomputer board (386->486 upgrade)
    VRM , set to 3,45 volt and *2 clock
    socket extension 168 pin with pin J1 removed
    cyrix 586 GP100

    -DSCN4729.jpg -DSCN4734.jpg

    But, it did not work in my IBM5150. Only the "VGA" logo appeared on the screen , then the pc halted.
    The answer were of course the BIOS. The old original BIOS is not compatible with newer then the cyrix486-PGA132 cpu-class. The real Intel486 and cyrix 586 needs a newer BIOS.

    -DSCN4705-.jpg

    Lucky i did buy a DIY kit with the "Anonymous" bios ,and here two
    days ago it worked for the first time

    Furthermore i have experimented with Netroom3 and the Inboard 386/pc. It runs wery sweet. You only have to edit in the CUSTOMIZE.INF file. The line "^inbrdpc" has to be added (otherwise rm386 has no extended memory to see when it
    starts). Cloaked BIOS and VGA no not function, but the PC switches to protected mode and the PC feels more quick. Could be fun if the virtuel BIOS could run on the Inboard , and the old PC could support a lot of new features
    When i try syscloak.exe the PC gives a message "BIOS system descriptor table missing.", but perhaps it is possible to cheat the Netroom to load anyhow ??

    Now , i only have to get more juice out of the 5x86. At this moment at runs like 6 time a pc-xt
    I did a Winstone94 test and it only concludes a score of 4,4. Not a lot, the original Inboard 386 with 80386 gives a score of about 6 !
    I have not read all there is about the cyrix-586, with internal settings and so - perhaps i am lucky i can umph the speed a bit by editing setting internally in 586 ?

    ;Data collected by: TOPBENCH | Benchmark and detection stub | Version 0.97
    ;This file contains fingerprinting information about your computer. Please
    ;email this file to trixter@oldskool.org with a subject line of "Benchmark" to
    ;help test these routines and seed the TOPBENCH database.

    [UID3336260]
    MemoryTest=507
    OpcodeTest=206
    VidramTest=993
    MemEATest=233
    3DGameTest=198
    Score=21
    CPU=Cyrix 5x86-S (clock x2 mode)
    CPUspeed=80 MHz
    BIOSinfo=unknown
    MachineModel=0000
    BIOSdate=20120502
    BIOSCRC16=3336
    VideoSystem=VGA
    VideoAdapter=VGA, unknown Chipset, 256kb Video Memory (BIOS)
    Machine=PC



    -DSCN4755.jpg -DSCN4756.jpg -DSCN4760.jpg -DSCN4761.jpg

    ...and yes, dispite it is the same hardware pictured above - the different applications do not quite agree about the speed of the CPU. One remark, the CPU do not get hot...

    thanks to everyone supporting this forum, and thanks to those quotes and refers to my posts.

    other links in my upgrading the IBM5150:
    (*1)http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthrea...on-Inboard-386
    http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthrea...Inboard-386-pc
    Tags: 586, inboard386
    #2
    6 times a PC XT was about what a PC AT ran at, no? You're probably doing pretty close to the limit.

    Comment

      #3
      I swear, if someone manages to get Doom to run on a 5150...... lol
      IBM PS/2 Model 25, NEC V30 8MHz, 640KB RAM, ATI VGA Wonder XL, 2GB SSD, Ethernet, DR DOS 6/GeOS, Xircom PE3 Ethernet

      Comment

        #4
        @ Chuck(G), yes if the CPU depends on the BUS speed, then i am at the limit, but if some setting can open for more cpu speed ?

        @ evildragon , have to try that one out some day

        /cimonvg

        Comment

          #5
          hello - well Doom 1.9 demo runs
          ...not fast, rather slow. I did count 200 frames and it took 86 seconds, it gives 2,3 frames per second

          -DSCN4765.jpg -DSCN4768.jpg

          ...AND the keyboard did not function, but with the mouse i did wander around in the castle....
          /cimonvg

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by Cimonvg View Post
            @ Chuck(G), yes if the CPU depends on the BUS speed, then i am at the limit, but if some setting can open for more cpu speed ?
            It's not the CPU that you're fighting; it's the bus and supporting devices. After all, you have to get information to the CPU somehow and get it out somehow. Or, to quote an Irish saying: "Cuir síoda ar ghabhar agus is gabhar i gcónaí é."

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by Cimonvg View Post
              hello - well Doom 1.9 demo runs
              ...not fast, rather slow. I did count 200 frames and it took 86 seconds, it gives 2,3 frames per second

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]37478[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]37479[/ATTACH]

              ...AND the keyboard did not function, but with the mouse i did wander around in the castle....
              /cimonvg
              That is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. Slow or not, it's running Doom!
              IBM PS/2 Model 25, NEC V30 8MHz, 640KB RAM, ATI VGA Wonder XL, 2GB SSD, Ethernet, DR DOS 6/GeOS, Xircom PE3 Ethernet

              Comment

                #8
                Is the internal cache enabled? My 386 to 486 upgrade needs a driver to enable it. You can check if it is enabled with cachechk
                My videos:
                IBM PS/1 model 2011 restored and enhanced
                IBM PC Advanced Diagnostics Cassette load

                Comment

                  #9
                  hello nestor - pretty sure that the cache is not enabled at this point - look at the ckcpu121.exe app on screenshot above .
                  - i have to look into the cache enabling
                  /cimonvg

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Chuck(G) View Post
                    6 times a PC XT was about what a PC AT ran at, no? You're probably doing pretty close to the limit.
                    There is still a lot of ways to go faster

                    Used Machine: PC XT (5160) with 8mhz bus, Inboard386 with clock-mod, Kingston 586 5V upgrade (x4 mode), 128k UMB, ET4000, SCSI (CF-HD, CD), 1.44mb floppy.

                    IMG_0244.jpg

                    IMG_0243.jpg

                    Doooooooooom


                    Aaaaand a bit faster now (no memory expansion though)
                    IMG_0247.jpg
                    IMG_0246.jpg
                    -Jonas
                    Last edited by stynx; April 7, 2017, 12:13 PM.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      hello
                      today i started out , thinking about writing , going back from Cyrix5x86 to IBM486BL due to the slow speed of the Cyrix.
                      And i did test the Cyrix (no cache) then the 486BL with cache and both at 50Mhz speed. The later did very well the first not so good.

                      And here a great thanks to stynx , for sharing the transcomputer driver tool , that enables the cache - it works and the result is a PC running at mind blowing high speed !

                      (most admit , did test the encache.exe for the first time today - had planed to test it earlier , but first go around to try it out today )
                      Today i did test the Cyrix5x86(no cache) then IBM 486 BL and last the Cyrix 5x86 with cache on.
                      I did use the speed test from
                      http://www.philscomputerlab.com/dos-benchmark-pack.html

                      ...it states:
                      "
                      At the end of the benchmark you will see a value for realticks. To workout the FPS you need to use this formula:

                      FPS = 74690 / realticks.
                      "
                      and the speed with 486BL in DOOM is notisable faster the Cyrix with no cache.

                      2017_05_13_9999_3.jpg 2017_05_13_9999_5.jpg

                      My DOOM test results:

                      ibm 486bl 50Mhz
                      small window 74690/3265 = 22,8 fps
                      maximum window 74690/11757 = 6,3 fps


                      cyrix5x86 at 50Mhz no cache

                      small windows 74690/11591 = 6,44 fps
                      maximum windows 74690/49193 = 1,52 fps

                      cyrix5x86 at 50Mhz with cache on

                      small window 74690/2757 = 27,01 fps
                      maximum windows 74690/10229 = 7,30 fps

                      ( the demo runnning at 7,3 FPS looks very impressive )

                      I also did a Winstone94 test :

                      IBM 486BL at 50 Mhz : score 12,1


                      5x86 with cache on : Score,"13,33778"
                      2017_05_13_9999_17.jpg


                      other testresults:

                      2017_05_13_9999_8.jpg 2017_05_13_9999_18.jpg

                      and topbstub data , with cache on:

                      ;Data collected by: TOPBENCH | Benchmark and detection stub | Version 0.97
                      ;This file contains fingerprinting information about your computer. Please
                      ;email this file to trixter@oldskool.org with a subject line of "Benchmark" to
                      ;help test these routines and seed the TOPBENCH database.

                      [UID745019165]
                      MemoryTest=157
                      OpcodeTest=154
                      VidramTest=1180
                      MemEATest=163
                      3DGameTest=92
                      Score=36
                      CPU=Cyrix 5x86-S (clock x3 mode)
                      CPUspeed=80 MHz
                      BIOSinfo=unknown
                      MachineModel=0000
                      BIOSdate=20120502
                      BIOSCRC16=7450
                      VideoSystem=VGA
                      VideoAdapter=VGA, unknown Chipset, 256kb Video Memory (BIOS)
                      Machine=PC


                      Only thing about the encache.exe is , -i think- it makes the CPU unaware of what DMA does to ram. After enable cache the floppy "dir" did look like this

                      2017_05_13_9999_20.jpg

                      ... have only to say, the 486BL is nice and fast, but the Cyrix586 at 50Mhz and the cache enabled, is just mind blowingly fast! And the Cyrix will not be replaced in near future

                      2017_05_13_9999_15.jpg

                      * a hardware note - my Inboard386 board were running at normal 16Mhz and not overclocked.

                      /cimonvg

                      Comment

                        #12
                        I am simply unable to believe that works.
                        [Need something to waste time on? Click here to visit my YouTube channel CelGenStudios]
                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        [No time for videos? Click here to visit my Twitter feed @CelGenStudios]

                        = Excellent space heater

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Now I definitely need something like this on my model 25. I don't care if I fabricate my own ISA riser with 3 slots (one inverted on the reverse side), I will make this happen now. Holy crap this is awesome.
                          IBM PS/2 Model 25, NEC V30 8MHz, 640KB RAM, ATI VGA Wonder XL, 2GB SSD, Ethernet, DR DOS 6/GeOS, Xircom PE3 Ethernet

                          Comment

                            #14
                            I think you tried Pentium overdrive before, correct? What was the story with that chip?
                            "Will the Highways on the internets become more few?"

                            V'Ger XT

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Anonymous Coward View Post
                              I think you tried Pentium overdrive before, correct? What was the story with that chip?
                              hello
                              I know the Pentium overdrive exists , but i do not have one... But did Cyrix586 not do better the the overdrive , back in the days ?
                              The cyrix i have now, only supports *3 clockspeed, if i could get a cyrix 120Mhz/100Mhz with *4 , i would properly do better score (?)
                              ...and i have to look into the heat exhaust , the cpu did not get that warm , but other chips did warm up...
                              /cimonvg

                              Comment

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