Inboard 386 and compability

[Cimonvg]

Hello
"The Installation Guide for the Inboard 386/PC" do not mention any problems with compability. But when you look at the text files in
"IBRD.ZIP 119907 01-07-93 Inboard 386 Technical Specifications & Notes."
http://cd.textfiles.com/pier02/010a/ibrd.zip

..you see that a lot of software and hardware were tested - and some do function well, other do not.

With a few shortcomings i did invent a way to make the old IBM 5150 run win32s programs (http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?49421-Running-Win32s-on-ibm-5150-with-Inboard-386-pc).
But the dos dox brings down the windows 3.1 with a blue screen.


when i click the dos-box in windows 3.1 this bluescreen appears:




...it says something like"
"Wrong VxD dynamic chain-call to module number 0003 , service 0013.
your windows confugiration is wrong.
Run windows configuration again to solv this problem..."
(3 lines about terminate og continue windows)

then hit the "enter" button...
"


...it says something like"
"Wrong VxD dynamic chain-call to module number 0003 , servce 014.
your windowsconfugiration is wrong.
Run windows configuration again to solv this problem..."




Above a picture of the Inboard with one VM runing. The next picture is standart 386 motherboard, and extra VM started due to DOS box in use.
Don't think the above is the problem - but it shows the VM's on inboard-pc's and on real 386 pc's.

Over time, i have see a few applications that do not run when startede in IBM5150 + inboard + himem.sys.
like:

Norton Utilities 8.0 DOS	(mouse function - keyboard not)
DrHardware	(shareware test app. halts at start screen)
dosbench	(halts when it has tested and normal exit to command-prompt)
a20 test app	gives error . Not same value written and read

I then start using IBM5150 + inboard + Netroom 3 - and it is an amazing piece of software!



now:

Norton NU,	do function and keyboard fine, application terminates normal og PC still useable !
dosbench	when finished testing, application now leaves dosbench back to command promt - and PC til useable !
a20 test app	writes and then reads SAME value !
DrHardware	if VIDCLOAK/PMBIOS is used then the application runs fine !

himem netroom

Above - the A20 test application. Netroom on the fly corrects the a20 problems!

Furthermore - if VIDCLOAK is used , then direct BIOS vga call , greatly increases in response time, and 486BL run rather fast with nice fast screen draw speed
And the RM386 /ROM option also kicks the speed up !



and new "record" in winstone94. This 16,2 is cyix5x86 times 3 and cache enabled, but no register alterings in the CPU - higher score cut be expected, with register changes



where is the incompability then ?
the text files gives this definition:
IBRD2052.txt:
quote:
"....
386 ENHANCED MODE

Windows 3.0 will not work with Inboard 386/PC in 386 enhanced mode
due to limitations of the computer. AT ROM BIOS, DMA channels and
keyboard controller interface are examples of things that Windows
3.0 might need from a AT-type system that are not found in a PC/XT-
type system.
..."


In IBRD2516 it also states :
"
Inboard
386/PC is not a system board replacement so it doesn't alter the
machine type code. Although the INBRDPC.SYS driver provides BIOS INT
15h extended memory functions, it does not supply the second
Programmable Interrupt Controller (PIC), additional DMA channels, or
any of the other peripheral chips which differentiate the AT from the
PC. The computer should be considered a modified PC."

...but i dont think the non-alteration of the PC type is interfering with my software experiments.

and in IBRD2516.txt the "Inboard 386/PC Software Design Considerations" it says:
quote:
" The INT 15h extended memory functions 87h (move block) and 88h (return
extended memory size) are installed with INBRDPC.SYS.* Function 89h
(enter protected mode) is not supplied because the AT version assumes
the presence of a second PIC, which is not present on a PC* . However,
functions 87h and 88h are all that is necessary for a well-behaved
application to access extended memory. Indeed, on the 80386, the real-
to-protected mode switching is accomplished in markedly less time than
on the AT because it is not necessary to reset the processor when re-
entering real mode."

And perhaps this is one big hurdle, the missing 89h ??
When i test windows 95 installation - windows halts after first boot , about the time is it is supposed to shift to protected mode ?!?
I am not educated in 386 BIOS, but i wonder "how does the windows 3 enhanced mode function when Function 89h is not present ?"

Another question...
At boot time, if SYSCLOAK is enabled in config.sys - this appears onscreen:


"BIOS system descriptor table missing."
("the VGA BIOS..." is the next application VIDCLOAK.EXE)
I do not know where this BIOS system descriptor table is ?. I know of the GDT - global descriptor table, but not of this BIOS table ?

And again question:
Could i POKE data back in RAM and then fool Netroom to mount Cloaked BIOS anyhow (some fake 386-bios data or ?) ??

I am asking - course , i think Helix made a fantastic product , and perhaps new software could run if the cloaked BIOS is enabled?
I have seen that applications run with Netroom - that did not run with Himem.sys. Only slight decrease in Doom speed test (about a few percent) with the vidcloak in action. And at one point the speedtest in Checkit did made infinite loop
with the cyrix5x86+vidcloak ... but else, dos and windows just run's better

Also have to say about the VIDCLOAK app. It did not function with my TIGA-vga card. And Tseng vga, i also remember correct, it did not function in windows (i did not try the /PMBIOS option).
But with ATI Mach32 it works in dos and windows with the VIDCLOAK /PMBIOS optionm. (Without the /pmbios option, windows do not function.)

If any ot you readers have any comment about the SYSCLOAK application, please leave a note , would be awesome to have the SYSCLOAK application running like glue between hardware and software
thereby making the PC to run applications faster and enabling new applications to run

(edit) forgot the win32s and coprocessor incompability .
Either , Inboard with CPU and win32s up and running. OR Inboard with CPU + coprocessor and no win32s. The win32s looks for device=*vmcpd, but a real coprocessor needs device=ibvmcpd.386 to function with the inboard!

/cimonvg


some links i also wrote regarding Inboard 386 :
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?57033-running-5x86-cpu-in-IBM-5150-with-Inboard-386
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?49421-Running-Win32s-on-ibm-5150-with-Inboard-386-pc
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?26900-this-is-my-hobby

 

[nc_mike]

No text.. Forget my post LOL

 

[Trixter]

QEMM pioneered most of the techniques used in Netroom (shadowing, etc.) and might work better, or at least differently, than your netroom setup. I'd give QEMM 8 a try just to see if it resolves some issues.

 

[Cimonvg]

QEMM pioneered most of the techniques used in Netroom (shadowing, etc.) and might work better, or at least differently, than your netroom setup. I'd give QEMM 8 a try just to see if it resolves some issues.

hello Trixter
Yes QEMM I tried a long time (2011?) ago. And yes, I'll try again.
But - try to read from the Netroom manual:


..sounds cool - "free" BIOS upgrade

On second thought, about my initial post :
"...but i dont think the non-alteration of the PC type is interfering with my software experiments."
The faster speed challenge would not suffer from this non standart 386 pc with PC BIOS.
But , trying to start SYSCLOAK and Netroom is not possible when BIOS tells the software, it is a IBM PC (not a 386). And this "BIOS system descriptor table missing." is properly a standart part of the 386-BIOS - i could try and read it from a standart 386-motherboard - just that i dont know how to see/read the "system descriptor table" part, course i don't know exactly where in memory it is

/cimonvg

 

[Trixter]

My view of 386 accelerators is that they are just that: Accelerators. They accelerate an existing host system using a 386, but do not transform the host into an actual 386 system. As such, people's expectations should be tempered, and people should be happy with what they get, honestly.

TOPBENCH has results that prove accelerated systems never get near that of native systems using the accelerated CPU.

 

[Cimonvg]

My view of 386 accelerators is that they are just that: Accelerators. They accelerate an existing host system using a 386, but do not transform the host into an actual 386 system. As such, people's expectations should be tempered, and people should be happy with what they get, honestly.

TOPBENCH has results that prove accelerated systems never get near that of native systems using the accelerated CPU.

hello again
good point , and of course the system can only perform to its limit.
But i take it as a challenge (i call it my hobby) - to try and undestand how the PC components work together and see if i can use the old PC to newer tasks.
And newer tasks often demands more computer-power and greater speed, so quite alot of my time is spend on trying to get more speed out of the PC.

My system at this point is, IBM5150a motherboard from 1982, and no alternations there besides new BIOS and cpu removed. The cards in the isa-slots are 1980' and 90' and i don't even use FLASH drives in my system <)
-- okay, at this time i use one U320 scsi-disk (they are fast and very low noise! )

/cimonvg

 

[Cimonvg]

...........
And again question:
Could i POKE data back in RAM and then fool Netroom to mount Cloaked BIOS anyhow (some fake 386-bios data or ?) ??

I am asking - course , i think Helix made a fantastic product , and perhaps new software could run if the cloaked BIOS is enabled?
I have seen that applications run with Netroom - that did not run with Himem.sys. Only slight decrease in Doom speed test (about a few percent) with the vidcloak in action. And at one point the speedtest in Checkit did made infinite loop
with the cyrix5x86+vidcloak ... but else, dos and windows just run's better

Also have to say about the VIDCLOAK app. It did not function with my TIGA-vga card. And Tseng vga, i also remember correct, it did not function in windows (i did not try the /PMBIOS option).
But with ATI Mach32 it works in dos and windows with the VIDCLOAK /PMBIOS optionm. (Without the /pmbios option, windows do not function.)
......

Hello again
a "funny" compatibility issue - i recently found - when i run 486BL driver as first driver then inboard 386 memory driver - AND use x3 cpu speed and cache enabled , Inboard reports an error



(my image from post in "forum/marketplace/vintage computer auctions/Not Mine-Wish it was! Intel Inboard 386" on the June 17th, 2013, 01:26 AM)
..so Inboard386 has a speed limit when booting !
Or , perhaps i could run the Inbaord386 memory driver, then the Evergreen CPU driver ?

The other day, i did boot with Netroom3 and the vidcloak driver. I did start the DrHardware 2.5 shareware utility, and just for the fun of it did hit the "read cmos" button - and now the Inboard as an virtual cmos
...well if i click the "advanced" botton the software reports "no cmos".. but anyhow!



And no! the data in the "fake" cmos is not correct. Hardware: CPU(386) no 387, ATI mach32 scsi disc and 1+4Mb ram.
now only looking for the BIOS extension in the 386dx and poke in in the Inboard386 memory, (dont hold you breath) to see if Netroom3 syscloak.exe runs and makes a "virtuel"386 pc

/cimonvg

 

[Cimonvg]

hello
back to the Inboard and hardware compability.
Today i did test the Inboard386 with a TI486-sxl2 cpu upgrade - and it works with the original 1982 BIOS !



For some time i have been using the Evergreen 486BL. But if you place the 486BL (or the newer Cyrix5x86) in the inboard with the original BIOS - the speaker beeeeeps, beps and then nothing more...
486BL and the newer Cyrix5x86 needs some (newer) BIOS codes then the TI486-sxl2 !
Keeping the motherboard to its most original - this cpu upgrade then seems like a good pick.

Have not speed-tested the Inboard/ti486sxl2 , but for the short test time today - it looks nice and fast like the 486bl).

PS.The TI486 cpu needs a few sockets, if RAM card is to fit besides the CPU.
/cimonvg

 

[Chuck(G)]

It's interesting, but these "accelerators" became history when the first 80386 "baby at" clone boards came out. Of course, if you've got a 5150, the 5-slot spacing would create a problem, but for a 5160 and up, it was far less expensive and troublesome to simply upgrade the motherboard--and you got better performance as well. Accelerators were like trying to squeeze a Ferrari F136 engine into a Lada. You might get it to work, but it wouldn't be worth the trouble or money.

 

[Cimonvg]

hello
quite agree - not the easy or cheap way to accelerat old hardware. I am not a car mechanic, but dont think it is that easy to squeeze a Ferrari F136 engine into a Lada. I see it is a challenge to see what i doable and what is not with the accelarators..
/cimonvg

 

[Chuck(G)]

I agree--but never say "never" to a fanatic. I suspect that somewhere out there, there's a dual CPU Itanium motherboard living in a 5150 case...

 

[ali-anm]

Hi all.
I have a DIMM-PC 386sx card and I want to use it to my project but it require JRC1 software for read/write memory. Kontron company does not support this and i have a lot of problems.
Please help me.