Announcement

Collapse

Forum etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


"PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
See more
See less

Olympia People - a nice, but failed attempt

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Woah--"high density" generally means that media and a drive uses data clocked at twice the original SA400 rate. So, a bog-standard PC "360K" drive is "low density" because it records data at a rate of 250kbps while spinning at 300 RPM. A high-density 5.25" "1.2M" drive records data at 500kbps while spinning at 360 RPM. The "360K" drive uses a track to track distance of 1/48" or 0.53mm. The "1.2M" drive uses a track to track spacing of half that of 1/96" or 0.26mm.

    High density media is very different in terms of magnetic characteristics from "low density" stuff.

    Note that bit density recorded is independent of track spacing. An old convention was to term 250kbps data written at 96 tpi "quad density", but I haven't seen that term in years. And it doesn't address the issue of what one calls 100 tpi drives (obsolete?).

    I find it's more useful to specify the format in terms of sectors, sides and cylinders. So, 256/16/2/80 specifies a disk formatted to 16 sectors of 256 bytes on 2 sides occupying 80 cylinders = 655360 bytes or "640KiB"

    A pet peeve that I have is the 3.5" "1.44MB" disk. Work it out--it isn't any of that. It's 1440 KiB but not 1.44MiB.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Chuck(G) View Post
      ...And it doesn't address the issue of what one calls 100 tpi drives (obsolete?).

      Comment


        #18
        I was wondering, if anyone knows a slow speed serial file transfer program for DOS, which can send data with 300-600 baud rate, and it does have a remote install option? So far all of the programs I tried (various Laplink versions, 530, Fx, etc.) are sending bootstrap at 2400 bps, as a result, my file transfer fails on Olympia, which can reliably process the data only at 300-600 baud rate, according to my tests.

        All programs fail the same - file transfer starts, Olympia can handle the speed for a few secs, then it starts to beep and file transfer stops. So far no luck finding a program with lower data transmission rate and with remote install as well...

        Forgot to mention, it has to be able to run on DOS 2.11 and 256K of RAM

        Comment


          #19
          You may have to modify the source code but TCOM (bundled with Kermit) defaults to 300 baud. ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/a/tcomtxt.asm explains the idea.

          Comment


            #20
            well, you can simply do a MODE COM1:300,n,8,1 command on the PC and then copy the data directly to COM1:

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Chuck(G) View Post
              well, you can simply do a MODE COM1:300,n,8,1 command on the PC and then copy the data directly to COM1:
              The receiving part does not works well - although Olympia even has a program file2aux, which should save data received directly to a file, it does not work properly - data only appears to be written, later to be found only as lost file fragments via Chkdsk.

              Besides, direct copy to COM1 is probably good for text files, not programs, if I'm not mistaken...

              It appears Olympia does not process End Of File correctly, resulting in remaining unresponsive after the file is sent, and can only be reset. Even manually typing Ctrl+Z+Enter on remote machine does nothing.
              Last edited by Adventurer; September 26, 2018, 10:23 AM.

              Comment


                #22
                Look at Kermit BOO which turn executables into text files making them much easier to transfer over the serial port. You will need to get a BOO to EXE or COM program running on the People to reverse the process but there are BASIC and DEBUG type ins to handle that.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by krebizfan View Post
                  Look at Kermit BOO which turn executables into text files making them much easier to transfer over the serial port. You will need to get a BOO to EXE or COM program running on the People to reverse the process but there are BASIC and DEBUG type ins to handle that.
                  Thanks! I finally transferred a program converted to Intel Hex format with Procomm, but now, I would be very glad if you could give me the link to a program written in BASIC, which could convert it back to executable? Thanks a lot!

                  Comment


                    #24
                    ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/boo/ has a bunch of different BOO converters. I think msbpct.bas is the version that works with GWBASIC. I think I will try using the CODE tags to include it here.


                    Code:
                    1    'On an IBM PC or compatible, use this BASICA program to convert a
                    2    'Kermit .BOO file to its original form.  The result is usually an
                    3    '.EXE file.  The program will prompt you for the file specifications
                    4    'of the input file and the output file, showing the defaults for
                    5    'each.  The default for the input file is MSKERMIT.BOO.  The default
                    6    'for the output file will be the file specification in the first line
                    7    'of the input file.
                    8    '
                    9    'Because of the way BASICA does its file I/O, an end-of-file
                    10   'character (control Z = hex 1A) will be added to the end of the
                    11   'output file.  This character will be included in the length of
                    12   'the output file.
                    13   '
                    14   'This program is based on MSPCTRAN.BAS by Bill Catchings, and it
                    15   'uses the same algorithm.  Many changes have been made to speed the
                    16   'program up.  It runs in 45% to 60% of the time that MSPCTRAN.BAS
                    17   'takes.  Using a hard disk, this program will convert the 59,394
                    18   'byte file named MSJRD5G.BOO in about 12 1/2 minutes.  Using a
                    19   'floppy disk instead, this program will do the same conversion in
                    20   'about 14 minutes.
                    21   '
                    22   'Developmemt and testing were done on an IBM PC XT using PC-DOS
                    23   '2.1 and IBM BASICA 2.0.  In CONFIG.SYS, BUFFERS=8.
                    24   '
                    25   '          Alan H. Holland     FEAHH at VTVM1 on BITNET
                    26   '          5/12/86
                    
                    100  defint a-z
                    110  z = asc("0")
                    120  t = asc("~") - z
                    
                    200  fid$ = "MSKERMIT.BOO"
                    210  print "Enter the file specification of the file to be deBOOed."
                    220  print "<CR> for default ["; fid$;
                    230  line input "] :", fi$
                    240  print
                    250  if len(fi$) = 0  then fi$ = fid$
                    260  open fi$ for input as #1
                    
                    300  line input #1, fod$
                    310  if len(fod$) <= 12 then goto 400
                    320  print "Error: The format of the .BOO file is incorrect."
                    330  close #1
                    340  system
                    
                    400  print "Enter the file specification of the output file."
                    410  print "<CR> for default ["; fod$;
                    420  line input "] :", fo$
                    430  print
                    440  if len (fo$) = 0 then fo$ = fod$
                    
                    450  t1$ = time$
                    470  print "Processing started at:  "; t1$
                    480  open fo$ for output as #2
                    
                    500  if eof(1) goto 800
                    510  input #1, x$
                    
                    600  if len(x$) < 2 goto 500
                    610  a = asc(x$) - z
                    620  b = asc( mid$(x$,2,1) ) - z
                    630  if a = t goto 700
                    640  if len(x$) < 4 goto 500
                    650  c = asc( mid$(x$,3,1) ) - z
                    660  d = asc( mid$(x$,4,1) ) - z
                    
                    670  print#2,chr$(a*4+b\16 and 255);chr$(b*16+c\4 and 255);chr$(c*64+d and 255);
                    
                    680  x$ = mid$(x$,5)
                    690  goto 600
                    
                    700  print #2, string$(b,0);
                    710  x$ = mid$(x$,3)
                    720  goto 600
                    
                    800  close #1, #2
                    810  t2$ = time$
                    820  print "Processing finished at: "; t2$
                    850  system

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by krebizfan View Post
                      ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/boo/ has a bunch of different BOO converters. I think msbpct.bas is the version that works with GWBASIC. I think I will try using the CODE tags to include it here.
                      Thanks, enough information to work on it now Still, it means I will have to convert the files to boo format, as the software most likely will not be able to convert from an Intel Hex file due to format differences...

                      Comment


                        #26
                        I expect there is a way of getting a Kermit to Kermit link to work but I don't know anything about the People so I can't help there.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by krebizfan View Post
                          I expect there is a way of getting a Kermit to Kermit link to work but I don't know anything about the People so I can't help there.
                          Well, at least hex file transfer with conversion would work this way, which is actually perfectly enough for now. I suspect there might be problems with linking software, since there are actually no software COM ports on Olympia, I have to type CTTY AUX instead of COM.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Things turned out different than I expected - I downloaded ckbmkb.c, compiled, converted a program in to a boo file, transferred, compared - everything was OK.

                            Then I typed the Basic program, and here is the problem - it appears to convert the files, but they are about 25 percent smaller, therefore resulting in either divide by 0 messages or no response from the computer after attempting to run them.

                            I did double/tripple check all the code in BASIC - there are no errors, everything typed exactly as it should be.

                            Does anyone have ideas what else to check? I'm running out of them...

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Check the code segment starting at 700 and the assignment of b at 620. My guess would be that the code doing the expansion of the RLE compressed nulls was incorrect. If the boo file was copied over correctly, that should be the only way to get a smaller result.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Adventurer View Post
                                Things turned out different than I expected - I downloaded ckbmkb.c, compiled, converted a program in to a boo file, transferred, compared - everything was OK.

                                Then I typed the Basic program, and here is the problem - it appears to convert the files, but they are about 25 percent smaller, therefore resulting in either divide by 0 messages or no response from the computer after attempting to run them.

                                I did double/tripple check all the code in BASIC - there are no errors, everything typed exactly as it should be.

                                Does anyone have ideas what else to check? I'm running out of them...

                                Hi,
                                my Olympia is finally fixed, so I start to deal with the same problem.
                                Did you maka any progress in this?
                                Best regards
                                Artur

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X