Announcement

Collapse

Forum etiquette

Our mission ...

This forum is part of our mission to promote the preservation of vintage computers through education and outreach. (In real life we also run events and have a museum.) We encourage you to join us, participate, share your knowledge, and enjoy.

This forum has been around in this format for over 15 years. These rules and guidelines help us maintain a healthy and active community, and we moderate the forum to keep things on track. Please familiarize yourself with these rules and guidelines.


Remain civil and respectful

There are several hundred people who actively participate here. People come from all different backgrounds and will have different ways of seeing things. You will not agree with everything you read here. Back-and-forth discussions are fine but do not cross the line into rude or disrespectful behavior.

Conduct yourself as you would at any other place where people come together in person to discuss their hobby. If you wouldn't say something to somebody in person, then you probably should not be writing it here.

This should be obvious but, just in case: profanity, threats, slurs against any group (sexual, racial, gender, etc.) will not be tolerated.


Stay close to the original topic being discussed
  • If you are starting a new thread choose a reasonable sub-forum to start your thread. (If you choose incorrectly don't worry, we can fix that.)
  • If you are responding to a thread, stay on topic - the original poster was trying to achieve something. You can always start a new thread instead of potentially "hijacking" an existing thread.



Contribute something meaningful

To put things in engineering terms, we value a high signal to noise ratio. Coming here should not be a waste of time.
  • This is not a chat room. If you are taking less than 30 seconds to make a post then you are probably doing something wrong. A post should be on topic, clear, and contribute something meaningful to the discussion. If people read your posts and feel that their time as been wasted, they will stop reading your posts. Worse yet, they will stop visiting and we'll lose their experience and contributions.
  • Do not bump threads.
  • Do not "necro-post" unless you are following up to a specific person on a specific thread. And even then, that person may have moved on. Just start a new thread for your related topic.
  • Use the Private Message system for posts that are targeted at a specific person.


"PM Sent!" messages (or, how to use the Private Message system)

This forum has a private message feature that we want people to use for messages that are not of general interest to other members.

In short, if you are going to reply to a thread and that reply is targeted to a specific individual and not of interest to anybody else (either now or in the future) then send a private message instead.

Here are some obvious examples of when you should not reply to a thread and use the PM system instead:
  • "PM Sent!": Do not tell the rest of us that you sent a PM ... the forum software will tell the other person that they have a PM waiting.
  • "How much is shipping to ....": This is a very specific and directed question that is not of interest to anybody else.


Why do we have this policy? Sending a "PM Sent!" type message basically wastes everybody else's time by making them having to scroll past a post in a thread that looks to be updated, when the update is not meaningful. And the person you are sending the PM to will be notified by the forum software that they have a message waiting for them. Look up at the top near the right edge where it says 'Notifications' ... if you have a PM waiting, it will tell you there.

Copyright and other legal issues

We are here to discuss vintage computing, so discussing software, books, and other intellectual property that is on-topic is fine. We don't want people using these forums to discuss or enable copyright violations or other things that are against the law; whether you agree with the law or not is irrelevant. Do not use our resources for something that is legally or morally questionable.

Our discussions here generally fall under "fair use." Telling people how to pirate a software title is an example of something that is not allowable here.


Reporting problematic posts

If you see spam, a wildly off-topic post, or something abusive or illegal please report the thread by clicking on the "Report Post" icon. (It looks like an exclamation point in a triangle and it is available under every post.) This send a notification to all of the moderators, so somebody will see it and deal with it.

If you are unsure you may consider sending a private message to a moderator instead.


New user moderation

New users are directly moderated so that we can weed spammers out early. This means that for your first 10 posts you will have some delay before they are seen. We understand this can be disruptive to the flow of conversation and we try to keep up with our new user moderation duties to avoid undue inconvenience. Please do not make duplicate posts, extra posts to bump your post count, or ask the moderators to expedite this process; 10 moderated posts will go by quickly.

New users also have a smaller personal message inbox limit and are rate limited when sending PMs to other users.


Other suggestions
  • Use Google, books, or other definitive sources. There is a lot of information out there.
  • Don't make people guess at what you are trying to say; we are not mind readers. Be clear and concise.
  • Spelling and grammar are not rated, but they do make a post easier to read.
See more
See less

Xerox 6060 restoration

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Xerox 6060 restoration

    I have just bought this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/163740299177

    EAF1A34D-F070-4B63-BB1C-EB23A5BAA738.jpg

    Seller says it doesnít work - Iíll try and fix it - wish me luck!

    (itíll take a couple of weeks to arrive)

    #2
    I passed on that -- I have 4 6300s and 2 6060s and out of all of them only one always works. I have another that decides randomly when it wants to work after power is applied -- it either shows POST just fine, or just sits there. I have two spare 6300 motherboards that are spare parts at this point because they don't work either. I have 3 color 6300 monitors which all work but each has some issue; I have 3 mono 6300 monitors and only one works; I have two 6060 monitors and neither works.

    I'm alarmed at how many of these are dying in storage, and how, despite no obvious corrosion or flaws, they just stop working even after significant capacitor replacement.

    I do wish you luck though. Please keep us posted. Give me hope I can someday repair mine.
    Offering a bounty for:
    - A working Sanyo MBC-775 or Logabax 1600
    - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

    Comment


      #3
      With Xerox 6060, welcome to the M24 owner club!!!

      I can give you hope.

      I have one full working M24
      I have one full working M24SP
      I have one full working M21
      I have one full working M240
      I have one M24 with power supply dead, but when putting another in, it works, except of floppy operation
      I have anther M24 (with "sidecar" - extension box) where power suppy is Ok, but floppy operation problem
      - The floppy operation problem at both is read error, currently* investigating in it.
      I have another dead M240, power supply issue
      I have one coior monitor which basically works fine, except of after not using it for long time, it needs up to 30 minutes to warm up and switch high voltage on. No idea what it is
      I have one monochrome monitor with 25 pin connector which fully works
      I have one monochrome monitor with composite in for M240 which fully works
      I have NEC Multisync I (the original one) which works in digital mode with 25 to 9 pin adapter, and currently* I am trying to mix color signals with intensity signal to get it also working in analogue mode, for TFT usage.

      * means currently, means not really currently, but currently interrupted - waether is too good and too hot to play computer...

      Power supply of M24/M240 is bad topic. Hard to repair, hard to test outside of chassis, because of it's mechanical structure. Maybe I should replace the internals with modern power supply...
      <album>

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Trixter View Post
        I passed on that -- I have 4 6300s and 2 6060s and out of all of them only one always works. I have another that decides randomly when it wants to work after power is applied -- it either shows POST just fine, or just sits there. I have two spare 6300 motherboards that are spare parts at this point because they don't work either. I have 3 color 6300 monitors which all work but each has some issue; I have 3 mono 6300 monitors and only one works; I have two 6060 monitors and neither works.

        I'm alarmed at how many of these are dying in storage, and how, despite no obvious corrosion or flaws, they just stop working even after significant capacitor replacement.

        I do wish you luck though. Please keep us posted. Give me hope I can someday repair mine.
        Iím sorry and surprised to hear that. The M24 I have back in Italy works flawlessly (the few times a year I get to use it), and the 6300 I have in the States also never had any problem - I just added a 3.5Ē drive a few weeks ago. Monitors for both (both monochrome) are fine. I even have an M240 in Italy which I acquired in absolutely shocking conditions, which stil boots up (having replaced the power supply) and only has a (hopefully minor) memory problem which I am still tracking down.

        Iím afraid analog (and high-voltage) electronics is not my strong suit so I donít think I can help much with troubleshooting the monitors - which is a shame, as Iíve never seen a colour monitor for these - either in real life (I believe they were far too expensive for retail customers in Italy back in the day) or even for sale. Maybe other people here can.

        Basic question on the 6300 with erratic power-on behaviour - did you check the power rails with a meter? When it doesnít POST, do you get anything at all on the parallel port?

        And also - thanks! Yes I will keep you posted, I had wanted a 6060 for a long time to ďalmostĒ complete my collection (Iíve given up on finding a Logabax... unless I move to France one day...)

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by 1ST1 View Post
          With Xerox 6060, welcome to the M24 owner club!!!
          Thank you! Although Iíve been in the club since the late Ď80s - but in fairness I only became active again in the last couple of years.

          Nice collection - I have never seen a sidecar for the M24!

          Originally posted by 1ST1 View Post
          I have NEC Multisync I (the original one) which works in digital mode with 25 to 9 pin adapter, and currently* I am trying to mix color signals with intensity signal to get it also working in analogue mode, for TFT usage.
          I had started on that project too a while back, even got some components for it - had to put it on standby for lack of time

          Originally posted by 1ST1 View Post
          Power supply of M24/M240 is bad topic. Hard to repair, hard to test outside of chassis, because of it's mechanical structure. Maybe I should replace the internals with modern power supply...
          I never had to, but presumably one could adapt a modern-ish AT power supply and just add a +15V rail with a custom-voltage boost switching regulator from eBay?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Valerio View Post
            Basic question on the 6300 with erratic power-on behaviour - did you check the power rails with a meter? When it doesn’t POST, do you get anything at all on the parallel port?
            I haven't measured the PSU yet. On the LPT port, when it doesn't POST I see nothing; when it does POST, I see numbers up to 45h (normal) and then it's in the POST display normally.

            I had wanted a 6060 for a long time to “almost” complete my collection (I’ve given up on finding a Logabax... unless I move to France one day...)
            I'll likely never see an M24 (I'm in the USA) unless I trade someone for it.

            Originally posted by Valerio View Post
            Nice collection - I have never seen a sidecar for the M24!
            Yes, I've never seen one either! Only in a photo.

            I never had to, but presumably one could adapt a modern-ish AT power supply and just add a +15V rail with a custom-voltage boost switching regulator from eBay?
            Someday I'll understand all of the words in that sentence.
            Offering a bounty for:
            - A working Sanyo MBC-775 or Logabax 1600
            - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

            Comment


              #7
              Valerio, do we know from elsewhere? Because I know italian guy which also travels a lot to USA and has large collection of M24 and 6060, 6300, etc...
              <album>

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Trixter View Post
                Someday I'll understand all of the words in that sentence.
                Apologies - that was indeed a bit cryptic. Let me elaborate a bit.

                If I had to replace an M24/AT&T power supply with a modern one, I would do the following:

                ATX power supply

                It seems there is a large number of form factors for modern PC PSUs (eg see here) but I would stick with the classic ATX. Specifically I would go for a Startech 300W ATX 20-pin power supply. I have never used this one before but I have bought plenty of Startech products in the past and they were of good durable quality. I have a number of Startech AT power supplies (sadly, no longer on sale) for my 486 etc. and they are whisper-quiet. No affiliation - just a satisfied customer!

                Adapters

                The M24 has four main internal DC voltage rail connectors on its power supply.

                M24_PSU.jpg

                1. A connector for +5V/GND/GND/+12V for internal drives. Internal drives use the classic 4-pin Molex connectors - no need for adapters here, the ATX power supply can be connected to the drives directly.
                2. A +15V/GND connector for monochrome monitors (connector "B" in the photo). We'll get back to this later.
                3. A +12V/-12V connector for the ISA bus (connector "A" in the photo)
                4. Two large +5V/GND screw posts for the main motherboard/bus converter supply

                I think the cleanest way to connect to the ATX PSU is to buy a cheap adapter that has has a 20-pin female ATX connector - something like this. You will also need a screw terminal block of sufficient size to accept the two large red/black wires.

                Cut off the unwanted end and refer to a pinout guide like this to connect the following:

                - All +5V wires (pins 4, 6, 19, and 20) together into one end of a screw terminal block. Do not connect the wire from pin 9 - that's the +5V standby (always-on) supply, leave that unconnected.
                - At least four GND wires (choose from pins 3, 5, 7, 13, 15, 16, 17) into another one of the screw terminal block openings
                - The wire from pin 14 (/PS_ON) to any GND wire. This tells the ATX PSU to switch itself on. Alternatively you can put a switch between /PS_ON and GND and control the PSU that way.

                This takes care of the main motherboard/bus converter power supply. Now we need to connect the +12V/-12V line. I don't have access to an original power supply right now so I can't tell exactly what type of connector this is, but I know it's a male connector on the PSU side so at worst we can connect the two wires from the AT PSU (pins 10 and 12 for +12V/-12V) to individual pins (those from breadboard jumper wires should do) and insert those into the female connector, securing the joint with good old fashioned electrician tape . Alternatively we can run a new wire to the motherboard, where the connector is male - I think individual female dupont connectors would fit, but again I can't be sure until I get a chance to check.

                15VDC line

                This is where it gets a bit tricky. We need to generate a +15V rail. This is used exclusively to power the monochrome monitor - if you are using an adapter to VGA, this is not needed. I also think this may not be needed by the colour monitor as that has its own power supply, but never having seen one I can't be sure. Anyway, I think the best way to do this is to use a DC-to-DC converter, called a boost or step-up converter, to obtain +15V from +12V. eBay has a large offering of these, but many are "variable-voltage" output that needs to be trimmed. In my experience I have always found these a bit fiddly - I usually prefer fixed-output-voltage regulators like this one. Mind the amperage - I would not go below a 2A rating as the M24 Theory of Operations manual specifies a current draw up to 1.8A on this line. I would source the +12V from one of the Molex connectors for the disk drives. The connector is the same physical size as the +12V/-12V one, so the same consideration apply for connecting it up.

                Dimensions

                All the above should work for a temporary replacement and/or for testing. For a permanent replacement it's worth noting that ATX PSUs are deeper that the M24 one (150mm vs 112mm) so I am not sure if they would fit. At a stretch I guess it would be possible to remove the ATX PSU outer enclosure (!!DANGER!!) and relocate the fan outside of the PSU into the location of the original fan, and house the ATX PSU PCB into a smaller enclosure (possibly re-using the original enclosure if the original PSU is truly beyond repair).

                It is also worth mentioning that the workings of the original power supply are documented in beautiful detail in the Theory of Operations manual, so if at all possible troubleshooting and/or repair of original units is worth a try (even though I have never done so myself beyond general cleaning and fuse replacement).

                Disclaimer

                I have not done any of the things above - this is just theory. Electricity kills. If you don't know what you are doing, don't.
                Last edited by Valerio; June 30, 2019, 10:44 AM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by 1ST1 View Post
                  Valerio, do we know from elsewhere? Because I know italian guy which also travels a lot to USA and has large collection of M24 and 6060, 6300, etc...
                  I don't know but sadly I doubt it - I've hardly ever been to Germany! Also my collection is anything but "large" - just one of each of M24, M240, 6300, and (yet to arrive) 6060. But I'd be happy to be introduced to your other Italian friend!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by 1ST1 View Post
                    Valerio, do we know from elsewhere? Because I know italian guy which also travels a lot to USA and has large collection of M24 and 6060, 6300, etc...
                    No, that is Vincenzo, and I don't think he's on this forum sadly.
                    Offering a bounty for:
                    - A working Sanyo MBC-775 or Logabax 1600
                    - Music Construction Set, IBM Music Feature edition (has red sticker on front stating IBM Music Feature)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yes, that's Vincenzo. So the M24 owner club is getting bigger and bigger, and here in this forum is the center of the universe.

                      Valerio, good thoughts about replacing the internals of the power supply. The original power supply repair task is very difficult, ok we have diagram and description, but the mechanical separation of low and high voltage part is a bad thing. If you want to analyze that psu, you have to get it out of it's chassis, need a long connection cable for the two parts of the PSU, fix both boards that they can't touch each other, be care full that you don't touch at the wrong spots, it needs some airflow, and you need some electrical load on the output connectors. That PSU is completeley dying if you power on without enough load. And you are dying if you touch at the wrong place.
                      Last edited by 1ST1; June 30, 2019, 10:03 PM.
                      <album>

                      Comment


                        #12
                        @Valerio, from what your seller describes your computer, I believe mine has the same issue. Did you manage to sort your 6060 out and get her working again?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Valerio View Post
                          I have just bought this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/163740299177

                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]54215[/ATTACH]

                          Seller says it doesnít work - Iíll try and fix it - wish me luck!

                          (itíll take a couple of weeks to arrive)
                          What's the story? Did you get it up and running? What monitor did you use?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Dear fellow Olivetti collectors,

                            yes, I'm here. I'm on this forum from years. Strange because some of you who write I'm not "here" actually replied to my posts here more than one time.

                            I'm not dead, yet!

                            Strange. Also my large collection of M24, M240, etc. etc … everything works! For the power supplies, no problems on my side: I know how to repair them.
                            Other topic are the motherboards: in this case spotting the issue, the failing TTL or LSI, is more complicate as you need to use a logic analyzer to track down the issue and then to desolder without damaging too much the motherboard.

                            Repair a motherboard it's a long story and takes time and dedication. Anyway I've replacement parts for nearly everything.

                            I can assure all of you that out of a few (less than 3 or 4) of all the Olivetti computers in my large collection (M10, M15, M22, M24, M28, M250, M250E, M280, M290, M300, M380 all models, P500, P700, P750, P800 etc.etc … everything works flawlessly.

                            Last addition to my collection is a wonderful M24 dated January 1985 with Bios 1.1. That is probably the second most aesthetically beautiful M24 I've ever got in my collection! THe first one is an M24 SP that seems like new.

                            The motherboard is like new, even no dust on it. And more unique than rare, the Varta battery is PERFECT! No spills. Seems to be purchased yesterday. I desoldered it, anyway, but I will keep it in the collection.

                            Plastics are perfectly white. It also has the rare Toshiba floppy drives model 5401 with the vertical trap door. The keyboard is an ANK2462 with 102 keys with US Ascii layout and two intense cyan and orange special keys. The mechanic of the keys is the later version with red plastic, so it has a better mechanism and better touch. The keyboard is like new, also. No yellowing, all the locks are intact.

                            Additionally I'm getting another (I already have 4 or 5) Olivetti M19, but this has a wonderful (and very rare) original color monitor (a CGA with DB9 connector), plus a working hard disk.

                            Then I got an M111 (working but with dead backlighting), an M211 with an Error 6 from the Keyboard test (that I'm still tracking down to try to fix it) and a Philos Color 45 in working condition.

                            My collection is growing … need to find another place to store it.

                            Greetings to everybody, unless I'm dying before you can actually reply to this post.

                            Vincenzo.
                            Last edited by pevalcas; September 19, 2019, 07:54 AM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hahaha! Wonderfull!

                              I need to visit you one day. You have M22... Wow! Never seen a M19 with color monitor. (I got a M300-02 and M4 modulo 46 recently, nice little machines)

                              Can you take pictures of your machines and put them on an album here in the forum?

                              Are you also able to fix PSU for M380C/XP1, M240?

                              democenter.jpg
                              My wet dream would be to fill this room with your and my machines and retransform it into permanent exibition... This used to be THE demo center... (do you know this building?)
                              Last edited by 1ST1; September 19, 2019, 09:42 PM.
                              <album>

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X